The Days Grimm Podcast
The Days Grimm, "arguably Indiana's most comical, thrilling, and controversial podcast", This three-pronged mandate acts as a primary filter for their guest selection. The "comical" aspect is reflected in its official genre of "COMEDY INTERVIEWS" and its history of hosting local stand-up comedians. The "thrilling" component is evident in interviews with individuals who have extraordinary life stories, such as people who survived shootings, rare medical conditions, and combat. Finally, the "controversial" element is demonstrated by Brian & Thomas’ willingness to engage in difficult or unfiltered conversations, touching on topics like homelessness, artificial intelligence, and religious hypotheticals.
A crucial element of the show's tone is its tagline, "Brought to you by Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)". This self-aware and raw positioning signals a modern comedic sensibility that embraces vulnerability and finds humor in personal struggle. The podcast's brand is not built on polished narratives but on the authentic, often messy, intersection of hardship and humor. The most compelling guests are those who have navigated a "Grimm" reality and emerged with a story to tell, and ideally, a sense of humor about it. This dynamic is the core of the show's appeal and the primary filter for identifying a story worth telling.
The Days Grimm Podcast
Ep.234 Art, Life, and Lessons with Matthew C. Fitzpatrick
In this inspiring episode of The Days Grimm Podcast, hosts Brian Michael Day and Thomas Grimm sit down with Matthew C. Fitzpatrick — award-winning visual artist, muralist, and high school art teacher from Evansville, Indiana.
Matthew opens up about his journey through art education, his experiences at Ball State University, and how creativity and persistence have shaped his life and career. From painting the massive “Welcome to Indiana” mural under Highway 69 to winning the Arts Council Visual Art Award, Matthew’s story proves that the creative path is built on passion, patience, and process.
🖌️ In This Episode:
- How Matthew got his start in art and teaching
- The mindset behind creating meaningful, idea-driven work
- Why failure and experimentation are essential for artists
- How observation and drawing improve all creative skills
- His advice for students, artists, and anyone reigniting their creative spark
- The story behind his viral “spooky show” art piece inspired by Mars Attacks
The conversation explores what it means to live as a working artist, balancing family, teaching, and creative freedom — all while giving back to the next generation of creators.
Whether you’re an artist, teacher, or simply love creative stories, this episode will leave you motivated to pick up your tools and get back to making something beautiful.
[The Days Grimm Podcast Links]
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDaysGrimm
- Our link tree: linktr.ee/Thedaysgrimm
- GoFundMe account for The Days Grimm: https://gofund.me/02527e7c
[The Days Grimm is brought to you by]
Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)
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unknown:Hello!
SPEAKER_02:Hello, hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to another thrilling episode of the Day's Grim. My name is Brian Michael Day. My name is Thomas Grimm. Sir, who's who's joining us today?
SPEAKER_00:If you'd be so kind. Joining us this week in the Day's Grimm studio is Matthew Fitzpatrick. How are you?
SPEAKER_03:Doing all right. How are you guys?
SPEAKER_02:Matthew C. Fitzpatrick, right? Yeah. I'm a big middle initial guy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I do it in all my artwork. I generally go by Matt just in like in person. But for all my artwork, it's always Matthew C. Fitzpatrick.
SPEAKER_02:I don't feel I feel like Matthews, that's a strong name. Do you feel like it's like too too much? Or do you just prefer Matt? Or what do you think it is?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I think Matthew is just too much of a mouthful growing up, you know. Like it just sounded too proper. I grew up in like a really small like farm town and I get it. Yeah, there were there weren't any Matthews, a lot of Matt's, but not at all.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think you'll hit an age where you become Matthew?
SPEAKER_03:Who knows, man? I'm not there yet, that's for sure. At least, well, I think that's why I use it for the artwork because it just sounds so much like more proper than I get it.
SPEAKER_02:And that's the point I was gonna make with the uh the middle initial. I'm a big middle initial guy myself, mostly because I love my middle name, which is Michael. Also because I read an article one time that uh you're like people are to take you 80% more serious if you use your middle initial like on proper documentation than if you were to not.
SPEAKER_03:Gotcha. Now I feel like I wish I would have known that because I've done that for so long.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like a not a pretentious thing, but it's just like a hey, I'm serious. I just do it because I'm the third.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. That's I used to tell people when I was in high school that I was the third, and I had a friend legitimately like tell me after college, so like years after high school, that I made a joke about something and I was like, Yeah, Matthew C. Fitzpatrick, and he goes, the third, and I was like, No, I'm not. I'm and he was like, I you told me all throughout high school that you were the third. And I was like, dude, my dad's name's Kevin. What are you talking about? Like, how did you not realize that I wasn't the third?
SPEAKER_01:That's great.
SPEAKER_02:That's the best, dude. Anyways, okay, so off of all that, it's been uh nothing short of a pleasure to meet you. But for the folks at home, um, could you, if you'd be so kind, sir, give them a quick uh 60 second uh elevator pitch on you know who is Matthew C. Fitzpatrick?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I'm uh I'm an art teacher and an artist. Um here in Evansville, Indiana. I do a lot of different things as far as like teaching goes. I teach high school art, but I also um make a lot of art. I I consider myself to be more of a painter and uh and a drawler, I guess, than anything. But now it's kind of like morphed over the years into this big I do a lot of woodworking and and sculptural things now.
SPEAKER_02:I saw a lot of that on your Instagram, uh Matthew C. Fitzpatrick. Uh give this dude a look. Um, definitely looks like you've won some uh some awards here. I loved the uh the bowling alley table. Like I saw that and I was dude, that is sick.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Yeah, I just got into uh more making furniture recently. Um I've always loved woodworking and and building things just in general. Um, but lately I've been trying to build more furniture, and I'm a bowler myself. Like I grew up bowling a lot and I bowl in a league. Uh so I found this like bowling lane for sale, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna make something cool out of that for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Nice, dude. Calmer than you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I dude, so oddly enough, I know the big Lebowski. There we go.
SPEAKER_02:Come on now.
SPEAKER_03:So like I grew up and all of my friends, like we all bowled and we all loved bowling, and all of my friends love the big Lebowski. And I was even just like two weeks ago, I was telling my wife that I was like, I always talk to all my friends about how I they all loved it, and I was like, Yeah, I love it. And then like every time I'd just be like, I don't get it. Like, I just I I was a kingpin guy, like that was my bowling movie.
SPEAKER_02:So I was the Amish guy with uh the he picks him up from the Amish country, he's got like a fake hand, or it's like can't remember.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, the he finds this guy that's supposed to be like a prodigy, and he's he's an old like washed up pro and he's trying to he's gonna take him under his wing and teach him to be a pro, and then they get involved with like uh like illegal betting and what's his name? Rich uh Roy Munson, I think was the that's are you talking about the commerce guy?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, who was the protagonist the main guy, the um the guy missing the hand or whatever, the washed up guy, the actor.
SPEAKER_03:Um it's Woody Harrelson's. Woody Harrelson.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it yeah, dang.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you a finger in or finger out guy on the ball? Ooh, good question. Uh in big finger. I know some people that play in the league and they don't, they just like it.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'd say it depends how you do it. So like if you're if you're just like thumb out and no second hand, like that's a weird thing to do in league.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just to like shoot, yeah, to like take it.
SPEAKER_03:There's a few people that do it. There's even a couple pros that do it, but um, I would say generally if you're not gonna put your thumb in, like you're gonna be a two-hand bowler and throw that way.
SPEAKER_02:At least something with like, because you're gonna you need stabilization. Yeah, you know what I mean? That left and right tilt.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I actually coached bowling for several years too at at the school I teach at and everything.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I think the list school, the school I went to, uh gym class, like one class of the year we would go to a bowling alley. Yeah, we did it too growing up. Yeah, I don't think they would let us go to the bowling alley at my high school. Dude, it was unsupervised, uh like big time. I mean, I was bowling with like two balls down a bumper lane. Like, could you smoke in there? No.
SPEAKER_02:See the bowling alley in Mount Vernon, you could smoke in that.
SPEAKER_03:I'm pretty sure when I grew up in, you could smoke in for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and they still took you down there for like school and stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was I mean, it was the middle of the day, so no one else was there. So, like, we would all we'd it was maybe a quarter mile from the school, and we'd all get in a bus and go down, and you learn how to like take your own score and everything.
SPEAKER_02:There was probably one guy there, he probably served in Vietnam, didn't we?
SPEAKER_03:I worked at the bowling alley for yeah, I worked at the bowling alley for several years too, and I know exactly who that guy was. And like, yeah, he was there all the time. Yeah, I'm not wrong. Yeah, he had a grandson that was like a couple years younger than me. By the time I started working there, he was there every single day, and I was like, Yeah, I bet you were here when I came bowling when I was in the middle of the street.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder if bowling league it's gotta be a lot like pool league. I think it's not as you have a team, and then like your team plays other teams from the area.
SPEAKER_03:Uh so I don't know how pool leagues work because I've the only league I've ever done is bowling, so I don't really know the other anything else. But right, um, so like we have there's 16 lanes, so you have 16 teams, and then each week you bowl a different team with out of that 16. Um, so then it's 33 weeks, so you have three legs of like brackets, I guess, kind of as you go through. Yeah, yeah. And then whoever wins like that leg wins, there's three of those teams, and then there's like one wild car, and then they bowl in the like the championship.
SPEAKER_00:And then what like when you win the championship, do you get to maybe go to Vegas and bowl?
SPEAKER_03:No, no, definitely not that big. You just get money. So like you you pay in every week, and then at the end you just get like a big payout of the biggest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like ten dollars every time or something.
SPEAKER_02:Did you like it like run into other bowling alley like gangs with like chains and stuff, and you guys like talk crap? Or do you guys have like a uniform? Like I know.
SPEAKER_03:Some teams do. We we never have, we talk, it's like one of those things that you talk about every single year that like we're gonna make this, and like especially with my like art background, and another guy on my team, his wife does like embroidery, so like we've talked about it. They want you to tie dye this stuff and like do all this cool stuff, and then we just never we never do. I love a lot of you do see it some though, because like recently several bowling alleys in the area have closed, and when they close, like those guys like will leave those bowling alleys and go to other ones, so then you have like these weird dynamics where they come in and you're like, Oh, like you're from Diamond Lanes or you're from this place, like what are you doing here? Is Franklin still open? Franklin's still pumping, right? Yeah, so it's Ark.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, damn, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Franklin does a ton of leagues. They even had they'll have like two a night where they'll bowl like in the like early evening and then late.
SPEAKER_02:They're just slinging leagues, dude. Um, okay, so let less now that we got that out of the way. Yeah, now that now that we I got my own. But bowling was like such a topic that like we had to top on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I can talk bowling all night.
SPEAKER_02:And honestly, I was really worried he wasn't gonna pick up my big Lebowski reference. I said, calm run you, dude. And he just kind of like, yeah, I know. Yeah, he just said, Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_03:Like I said, like I I the last time I saw that was probably in middle school or early high school.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, dude, it's so much better when we're gonna do it.
SPEAKER_03:I want to rewatch it now because I think I would enjoy it more. But I just remember every time we we watched it like every single weekend in middle school and high school. Oh, you're like literally every weekend we watched it. And all my friends loved it, and I just remember every single time watching it. I don't get it. And I was like, I get it. Like it's it's funny in parts. I like watching the edited version on TV more because that's like so much funnier when they try and take all the cussing out. Yeah, because there's like the part where he's like smashing the Corvette. Yeah, is there the Corvette? Yeah, smashing the car, whatever car it is, and he's just like, This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps, and like it makes no sense. Never heard the edited version. It makes no sense at all, and it's so funny.
SPEAKER_00:I've got to watch that. Oh god, I've got to watch. Okay. So you said you grew up in a small farm town. Was that or like outskirts of Evansville, or where was that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm so I'm up from northern Indiana, um, about thirty minutes west of Fort Wayne.
SPEAKER_00:So like Crawfordsville?
SPEAKER_03:Uh Lebanon be way north of that. Okay. So I'm from uh North Manchester, it's up by like Wabash and Warsaw. The only thing that's there is Manchester University, if you ever knew anything from that area, it'd be that.
SPEAKER_02:If I had a good producer, he would have already had a map pulled up for us. So I'm not that fast.
SPEAKER_00:Uh so like what did what did you do growing up there?
SPEAKER_03:Uh so the town itself is probably about like 6,000 people.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good sized town.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's not it's not terrible for a farm town. Yeah. Um, we had the university, so like it was six thousand people when the university's in session, it's about four thousand when it's not. So, like during the summer, it's a little smaller. Y'all had a college? Yeah, there is a little private college. What was it called? Uh Manchester University. Oh, you said that and I missed it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:I was I think they changed the name. It was either Manchester College or Manchester University. They've changed the name to one or the other. I don't remember which it is.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, shout out to Manchester.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's Manchester University now, and I think when I grew up it was Manchester College. Were you always drawing growing up? Uh so yeah, I had like I even tell my students now that the I think the reason, pretty much the reason of the things that like define my life now of like art and bowling, would just be that I grew up in a town where you had nothing to do. So, like I I was never really that into TV and and stuff like that. I was always outside. I grew up skateboarding, but I always enjoyed art. So I would go into my house and just like draw pictures and stuff like that. That's what I grew up doing because that's what I enjoyed. I always had a sketchbook, and then the bowling alley was a couple miles from my house, so I would ride my bike to the bowling alley and go bowling because there was literally nothing else until you could drive. The closest anything was 30 to 40 minutes away. So if you wanted to go see a movie, you had to drive 30 minutes.
SPEAKER_02:If you wanted to go where was that at, if you don't mind me asking?
SPEAKER_03:Uh Huntington, Indiana was the closest.
SPEAKER_02:Huntington.
SPEAKER_03:And that was like a 20 to 30 minute drive. The really the only thing like in that area at all would be if you ever went to lakes like Lake Webster and like that kind of stuff is close. Never been up there. Everything else is like it's just Fort Wayne. That's the only thing that's like a close marker.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, shucks, dude. Okay, okay, sick. So you stuck as a child, you stuck to proximity. You stuck in the room to drawing, you know, get out on the bike.
SPEAKER_03:Like even hanging out outside. Everything's like so spread out, so like until I was in middle school and I was I couldn't go to a friend's house or anything because all my friends live two, three miles away, and like you couldn't really. I was we were on the outskirts of town, not quite in the country, but not really in the like in town.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Did your parents introduce you to art or uh not really? It was just like no one else in my family's really into art. Really, my whole family was more about music. That was our whole thing. Um pretty much everybody in my family can play like two or three instruments, and and really growing up, that's more of what I was into than art. Like I always liked art and I always drew and and stuff like that, but um, I didn't really take art seriously until I was probably like a junior in high school.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think well I'll ask one question first. So can you play anything? Can you play an instrument?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I grew up um playing saxophone, so like any kind of saxophone.
SPEAKER_02:I love a sexy sax, dude. So good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was my whole family was really big into like concert band and marching band and stuff. So like I I did all of that from like fourth grade all through high school. I was a drum major. I didn't know.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, dude, you can hit the skins?
SPEAKER_03:Well, so drum major for like marching band of like directing.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay, okay. Damn. I'm jealous of drummers. I don't have the uh bilateral, whatever it takes to keep rhythm over here and hit some stuff. I can't I can't do it.
SPEAKER_03:I wanted to do drums. Like we joked about it as a family because we all played so many instruments that nut but none of us played drums. So in fourth grade, when we got like tested for like what instrument you were gonna do in band, yeah, yeah. Um, I told them I wanted to do percussion, like they gave me all the instruments and I made noises on them, and they're like, Alright, you can pick whatever you want. And I was like, Alright, well, I want to do percussion, and they told me that it took no musical talent. So then they've like pushed me towards something else, and I was like, All right, I guess I'll play saxophone for the next one.
SPEAKER_00:What I really meant is they needed somebody to do something else. Everybody wants to do percussion, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:It's so funny too, because like that just was like what I did for the next like eight years of my life was play saxophone, and it was all that one conversation.
SPEAKER_02:So then uh my follow-up question is do you find being in a household full of uh artists, if you will, or at least pe people that appreciate the craft thereof, do you find that like because I'm big into music. I I've I taught myself how to play guitar, I loved skateboarding, I loved drawing, I loved all kinds of stuff uh similar to you. Do you think that it's true? Is it a true statement that like mo like any musician would have a good eye for art, like in that being like physical art, or do you think people that do physical art have probably an eclectic taste in music or have like good fine taste in music? Or basically, like, is it true that like you know the left brain, right brain thing? Like, if if you're that creative individual, a photographer or a sex player or whatever, does do you it do you think it's applicable across all fields of art? Does that question kind of make sense?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I get what you mean. Yeah, um I've always wanted that I feel like I see it more from people that do art usually have a tendency to like more eclectic music than people that are really into music also being really good at art, if that makes sense. But I feel like the difference though is that like art is a skill set that it's something you have to practice and you have to dexterity. Yeah, it's it's it's just something you have to do over and over again to get good at it. So if you're not practicing that, you're never going to But you could argue the same thing for musicians too.
SPEAKER_02:They have to have dexterity as soon as it's like.
SPEAKER_03:But I'm just talking about or what I meant was that like there's a lot of artists that like a lot of different like have an appreciation for music. I see what you're saying. There are a lot of artists that also play music too, that I think there there is a correlation there. But um but I think when you originally asked the question, you said like it just uh like an eclectic music or something like that. Yeah, like an appreciation. And I think there's a lot of musicians that have an more of an appreciation for art.
SPEAKER_02:Like I think when you have that creative mindset that you just appreciate other creatives, because then you compare it to like somebody who's less creative and more quantitative, like those, I guess, right-brained individuals who are like crunching numbers and very analytical and very fact-based. And when I picture that person, and I mean no disrespect by this, they seem kind of sterile, almost kind of like drawn away from not emotion, but you know, you kind of get what I'm saying. Like, I don't feel like they would have awesome taste in music or awesome taste in art as a general.
SPEAKER_03:But I could be completely like prog rock and stuff like that, though. That you have so many like prog rock and like things like that, where it's like you you have these people that look at at music or art as almost like analytical of like trying to figure out try to figure it out.
SPEAKER_02:That's actually a strong argument, and you might be you're so much smarter than me. God dang it. That's actually a really good point.
SPEAKER_03:And I mean, there's visual artists that do the same thing, like Piet Mondrian that does the I I guarantee you've seen his work before. It's like the little like primary color boxes that are laid out. Like his was all like mathematical compositions of like trusting. Oh no way.
SPEAKER_00:People do that, like Kanye did that with beats per minute and stuff like that. He found out that like a certain beats per minute can get you to feel a certain type of emotion.
SPEAKER_02:Did you hear about Skrillix? Oh my god, this is totally off topic, but I have to bring this up. Skrillix's music, or maybe it was one of his songs, I can't remember. Actually, when they played it in the atmosphere of bees in a hive, it changed their psychoactivity. Like it changed how they would like go about their day in their honeycomb or whatever, because uh of whatever reason. But like his music is obviously you know music would probably do that. No, no, no. They've done tons of studies on music with plants, tons of study with music's. No, those from like school science fair projects, but it's legit, and then they played Skrillix, and I think it was honeybees, and it would like change like they would go crazy, like do wild, like they would be on the roof of their honeycomb, whereas they never stand on the roof of you, just weird. Did you play sports in school? Fun fact. Well, I was that's a fun fact.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I was gonna say too, that like one of the things that I talk about, so like one of the classes that I teach is like an AP class that's like a college-level opinion drawing, but it's portfolio building of like how to form ideas behind artwork and how to express those ideas.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so one of the things that I talk to those kids a lot is that like a true artist and someone that like goes out and is trying to like all the artists that you can name and things like that, like the bigger named artists that are out there that are trying to show you like an idea or a thought process, not just trying to show you an image. Um, like they the best correlation that I can think of for that is a scientist that basically like they do the same thing that a like a true artist is going through and they're trying to come up with some kind of question that they're trying to answer. They're doing a bunch of experiments, they're doing a bunch of learning, they're doing a bunch of research to try and figure out what they want to say about that or what they learn about it. And then at the end, like an artist would or a scientist would write a research paper about it, and an artist is going to make an artwork about it. So like it's a it's written down versus a visual showing of like this is what I like, this is what I'm trying to teach you, kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_02:That's a very unique uh that is a very unique way to look at it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I think within the art world, especially now, because with um the the way a lot of art is now, with it's more about the idea than it is about the imagery. So I think now um you see that more and more from some of the artists that are out there that like it's really it's not it's not so much a just about like the pure expression, it's about like what's the concept, what's the idea that you're trying to get across within that. So I think like some of those like logical thinkers, like you were saying, like there's a big overlap within the art world now where like you can have that kind of analytical mindset where you're trying to formulate how to do this.
SPEAKER_00:That is very especially when you're like setting up the whole gallery.
SPEAKER_03:Like if you're the artist, if you're creating an entire space and doing installation pieces and like all of this kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02:There's so much you can say with the lighting and the space in the room.
SPEAKER_03:And that's just purely the art side of it. That's not getting into like graphic design and like the industrial application of that, where like those people are legitimately trying to like that are quantity trick you and like brainwash you into doing this by the art.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Now, fun question I have is a lot we were speaking with an individual a couple weeks ago on the podcast about art. Oh, it was Jake. Shout out to Jake and his film, uh, if possible. Don't know when it comes out yet, but it's great. Great film. We were talking about artists and how um a lot of them will say, you know, uh, if you ask them like what are you trying to portray with this piece? A lot of them will say that is up to your interpretation. What are your thoughts on that? Um Is it is it the artist is it the artist's like obligation to leave it to the viewer or the listener or whatever, or is it just kind of I mean, because they made it, it's just up to them. Like you can leave it up to interpretation, or you can say that this is what it's about.
SPEAKER_03:I think there's a lot of correlation between like that and like music that like obviously there's a mindset that the artist is thinking about, there's something that they're they're channeling, there's something that there's some thought process they had there. But I think once once you kind of release that and put it out there, it's up to other people to interpret what they how they feel about it. Or like I can tell you what it's about, like I can tell you what several of the pieces that I've made are about and like the thought process I had, but you might look at it and get a completely different thing from that, and that's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_02:It's easier to imagine it with physical art than it is with with music. I feel feel as though with music, especially lyrical music, the message is usually pretty upfront and uh pretty easy to kind of interpretation can be completely different. Like there's a uh it could be there's a word for it when you say something but mean something. There's like a hidden meaning, basically. But yeah, for the most part, I feel like with physical art, it's kind of like you can kind of build whatever you want, whatever is driving you or motivating you, but then how it's interpreted, you know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:And it just really depends on like how vague you want to be, how straightforward you want to be. Yeah, absolutely. There's a great um documentary, like one of the bands that I love is Manchester Orchestra. There's a great documentary.
SPEAKER_02:I love Manchester Orchestra. I got to see them live at Bunbury in Cincinnati.
SPEAKER_03:I saw them in like 2008. I saw them open for brand new in um I saw them with brand new in Bunbury.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:This was like almost 20 years ago now, but they were they had just had one album that was right after they released Like a Virgin. Uh-huh. And they just basically played that album. It was awesome. It was them and Kevin Devine and brand new. It was awesome. Oh yeah, brand new is amazing too. Um but like there's a documentary that they made for one of for that album, and they're going through and they're talking about one of their songs. Um, I forget the name of it, but it's I think it's Sleeper 1972 or something like that. It's the one that's about his uh dad being dead, and like um I forget the name of it. But um the like the opening lyrics to it are like when my dad dies, worms ate out his eyes, like that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And for him, he said that in the documentary he had this dream that his dad died, and he it was like this like soul-crushing experience. So he wrote this song about like how just crushed he would feel if his father passed away because he had this really close uh relationship with his dad. And then after one of their shows, like this girl comes up to him and is talking about how that song got her through like this terrible thing that happened in her life, and it was like this awful thing. And this really helped her. And he she had taken it as this like inspirational thing of like how to get through this. Yeah, I didn't. And Andy Hall from Manchester Orchestra was just like, I never would have guessed that that would ever happen from that song because that was come coming from such like a soul-crushing place for me of just like how it'd fall apart if my dad were to die. That's and this uh girl is taking that and turning it into this completely like uplifting thing for her to get through this like tragic thing that happened.
SPEAKER_02:Art is a beautiful thing, man. I don't care what what uh what media you use, it's a beautiful thing. Let's let I want to hop back to the timeline though, so we don't miss anything. But so you're you're up near uh Valapere, is it? No, Fort Wayne. Fort Wayne area of the state. Yeah, you're up near Fort Wayne, uh, all through high school.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, my my parents still my parents and my brother still live in North Manchester. No way, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So how long do you kind of so you go through high school there? What was what was that like?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, so um, I mean, it's just a small town, or my graduation class size was like a hundred people, hundred and twenty or something like that. Oh, yeah, brother, me too, dude. Wow. Me too, dude. And um, I mean, I grew up playing a bunch of sports. I played, I was in marching band, I played in a bunch of bands outside of school too. That was always kind of my thing. I skateboarded.
SPEAKER_02:Do you have a sport that you liked? That you actually enjoyed?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I grew up playing football the most. Like I was big into football. And then my junior year of high school, I switched over to soccer instead of football because I just got like mad at my coach and decided to do something else.
SPEAKER_02:Sick, dude.
SPEAKER_03:So then I played soccer junior and senior year.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't get into soccer until I was in my twenties. I did a uh uh whatever you call it, league at U of E. It was really, really fun. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I did that all throughout college too. That once I got to to college, I played soccer a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Like where did you go to college at?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I went to Ball State.
SPEAKER_00:South south of where you were at.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so ball state would be like an hour and a half south of where you went for art. Yeah, so I went uh my original plan was to do a double major that I was gonna major in graphic design and art education. Okay, pretty much my whole life. I knew I wanted to be a teacher. Like I think my mom even has papers from when I was in like fourth grade saying I was gonna be a teacher. But it was always music, like it was always music until my junior year of high school. I took a like a painting class, and I still I'd even taken art classes. I liked art, it was okay. Like it was it just wasn't my thing. And then um, we went on a field trip to the Chicago Art Institute, and I saw like famous works of art for the first time. Yeah, and like freaked out, and like that was like it from that moment on that I was like, I want to do art, and this is that. And I had my older brother is like a luthier and he builds guitars for a living.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know what that means.
SPEAKER_03:It means he builds guitars for a living. Okay. A luthier is a person that builds and repairs guitars.
SPEAKER_02:I'm so sad. Dude, how long have I been playing music? How did I not know a luthier makes guitar?
SPEAKER_03:I literally I would never know if my brother didn't do it. Like, that's the only reason I know the.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they cobble shoes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, at least uh But hit that was his like he's probably the best guitar player I've ever heard in my life. Like he's incredible. Yeah, he's so good. He's does he do anything with it? Uh so that's all he does is just work on guitars. He's never really wanted to play music or anything. What? Or he he's been in a bunch of bands, he's really talented, but he just never that was never his thing, was like performing all that much. It was the creation, but he was so good that like growing up, I feel like that was one of my things that I was just like, well, I'm never gonna be as good at guitar as as he is, so like maybe I'll just do art instead, and like that could be my thing. Yeah, I was always a bass player rather than a guitar player anyway, so I don't know why I always made that comparison in my head, but I was like, I'm just never I'm never gonna be as good at music as all of these other people in my family that are really good at music, so maybe I'll do art instead.
SPEAKER_00:Uh could you bring like a local artist into like your classroom? Like, do you ever do that?
SPEAKER_03:Uh good. I have before, but it's been a while since I've done it. I don't think I have since uh like 2020, since like COVID and everything happened.
SPEAKER_00:It'd be cool to get Kevin or Cooper. Bro, get Coop. Be cool.
SPEAKER_02:Are you familiar with I am Cooper? Yeah, such a great dude, and he's been on the podcast so much. Are you familiar with Kevin Titzer?
SPEAKER_03:I haven't met him, but I know his work.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, he did an installation up at uh Jasper Jasper Boys Counter. Yeah, I think it's down by now. This is the last week, so by the time this airs, it'll be gone. Yeah, amazing. Uh dude, you should pull up the head. Did you see pictures of it by the time? Yeah, I have seen it. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I haven't seen it in person, but it's super cool.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, I'm telling you, when I walked in that room, it was like a religious thing. Yeah. It was weird. It it was weird. It was so strange. It was just the most beautiful. It's super cool.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god. So awesome. Shout out to Kevin. So, like you guys went on that field trip and that like that changed an all-opening experience.
SPEAKER_03:Like it there was just something about it that it was the first time I had ever seen art that I knew for an artist that was like uh it was actually one specific uh painting. It was the uh Picasso uh old guitarist or blue guitarist.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I know that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's up at the Chicago Art Institute. Big old funky guitar. Yeah, where he's like, oh look. Guys holding it funny looking. Will you look it up, please? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But it was one it was a a work that I knew stuff about at the time because like we had talked about it in art history and in high school. And like when you see it in person, you can see like where he had painted over things, and there was like all these like little things in it, and I that is I remember like standing there and being like, Oh, and look here, and like you can see this and like this kind of thing, and and really it was from like that moment on that it it just kind of flipped in my brain that I s stopped caring as much about music. I still loved music and and loved playing music, but like really started caring out art.
SPEAKER_02:How much this is a question for Tom. Tom, how much do you like when you see an image of like a famous work of art like this, do you want to like mentally put yourself? Do you try to mentally put yourself in the room with this subject? Do you do stuff like that? I mean to a degree. Or is that just me? Every now and then, maybe. Like the like you could see this. The context of like what it's about. I want to be there. The scream is a prime uh everyone knows the scream uh where they're standing on the bridge and their wave wavy faces, but like I want to be on that bridge.
SPEAKER_03:I I try to mentally put actually physically be there.
SPEAKER_02:I want to be there and just like walk around it and see it and and and that's like a thing that um I think it's art.
SPEAKER_03:Art museums are just I think that's a thing that museums are kind of doing now that they're trying to make like more experience things where they'll like project in an entire room and you can kind of like feel almost what it's like to be in the scene.
SPEAKER_00:When I went to the Kansas City Museum of Art, they had like they had um they're doing it with Van Gogh a lot.
SPEAKER_03:The what? They're doing it with Van Gogh a lot that they're like putting like Van Gogh experiences.
SPEAKER_00:This was the guy that did the wave. Um the Japanese fella. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was super cool. They had like his old drawings and like books. I'll plug some images in through this section up there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm sorry, we're getting lost on an art tangent. Well, that's what this whole episode is supposed to be about. So I you know what? I'm not sorry. Yeah, I I just have this weird fascination, and I did it whenever I walked into the head for uh or from pillar to post was the name of the installation. But when I walked in there, I was like, man, I just like I'm in the room with this thing, but like where would this thing belong? I want to be there, and it's cool with like the physical art that you can like walk around, like the installations, the three-dimensional art. You can walk around and you can touch it and be a part of it. But like I find that when I see like a good painting, like a fucking good painting, and I just want to be there, I want to be in it.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I don't know why. I don't know what that is. Yeah, and I mean there's some artists that like play off of that mindset too. Like Mark Rothko is one that he in so his work's like really abstract, it's just like big squares, basically.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:But like in I think it's in Houston.
SPEAKER_02:You had me at squares, I'm in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's just like big blocks of color, basic, basically. But like Mark Rothko made this thing called the Rothko Chapel in Houston, okay, where he basically designed like an entire like experience almost like a chapel or like a church that you would go into, and he just has these giant paintings all around that you're supposed to feel like they're just they just engulf you and they're really big, and it's it's cool. I've been to it in I'm pretty sure it's in Houston. Um that is dude. Yeah, and like some people like some artists, that's their thing. Like Mark Rothko is one that he made it, he tried to make all of these paintings really big, and the whole idea is that like the color and the shapes are supposed to like surround you and engulf you and like pull you into the work.
SPEAKER_02:That's actually a fun question that I have for you. What is the largest piece of anything that you've ever worked on? How large of a piece sorry, of a piece have you worked on before? Uh the biggest thing you've ever is it including like murals? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh the biggest thing I ever worked on was the mural that's under uh 69 when you're going to Henderson that says, Welcome to Indiana. Oh, no way. You're a part of that? Yeah. Uh my friend John and I painted that. He designed the whole thing and then asked me if I would come and help him paint it. So yeah, yeah. That's dope. Yeah, that's definitely the biggest like physically thing. If you're talking about like individual pieces, I did a painting for one dude, like a commission piece that was like four foot by six foot. It was a giant, huge giant thing. Yeah. Jeez.
SPEAKER_00:So what was college like for art? Yeah, what was Ball State like, dude? Crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I high speed compared to your small town life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was definitely it was definitely a change of pace, like getting there and and just having so many people around you all the time. Like I just had never really experienced a 30,000-person campus, I think.
SPEAKER_02:20,000 kid. Yeah, 20,000 kid campus. It's huge.
SPEAKER_03:And especially for like getting there and um never being like on your own. And like it's just like college in general. Like once you get there and you're like an adult all of a sudden, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:20,400 students as of 2023. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think when I was there, it was probably quite a bit smaller because you're talking about almost 15 years ago. Yeah, something like that. I graduated high school in 2008. So it would have been a good thing. Dude, we're the same age. Nice. Hell yeah? Yes. Hell yeah, brother. Um, so yeah, it was at the time, it was like up and coming at Ball State, the art program. Oh, okay. So there there wasn't a ton of kids in it, but it was still quite a few. And by the time I graduated, so in like just four years, the entire art department had like doubled in size. So it was like a huge like growth area of the school, which was really cool to be part of. Um, I've always said, like, especially for college, once you get into college art, there's no experience anywhere that's like being an artist in college because like it's just so much creativity and it's so much it's so much like just like practice over and over again that like when you my day, I've always been an early riser, so like I always had 8 a.m. classes, but I would get up and go to like 8 a.m. classes, I'd be done with class by like noon, and then I'd just be in the studio until like 10 o'clock at night, and then go home, get up and do the same thing the next day. But you're just like being drilled, like you just make so much art, and it's just so so much. And it's it's such a cool environment because like everybody in that in that college or that area is into art, so like people are just making stuff and like hanging it on the walls in the in the studio, and like you get to see all of this cool stuff, and like the professors are cool with you just going and like nailing something to the wall just to show it off, and like, and it's just it's a really cool experience.
SPEAKER_02:Do you have a favorite um course or a favorite professor maybe from Ball State?
SPEAKER_03:Uh my favorite professor, yeah. My favorite professor was my painting professor, David Hannan. He was really cool.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I was actually so I was a so I went as a double major that I was gonna do graphic design in art ed, and then the first week I was there, I sat down with my my advisor to like plan out classes and like all that stuff. And he he was super dramatic, and he like sat back in his chair and was just like, Well, I've had two students in the past that have double majored in graphic design and art ed. Um, one of them did it just fine, the other one died. Which one are you? And I was like, I don't know. That was like literally the first conversation I had with the talk you out of it. Yeah, so he was like, which was your advisor? That was my advisor. So and then like fast forward. So fast forward, I found out he's in charge of like the entire art ed program. And he was he like gave me this talk that he was just like, Hey, like art ed is not a fallback plan. This isn't something that you're just gonna do because you didn't get into this other thing because you're gonna do this. Like, he's like, if you don't, if you don't love it, if you don't like it, it's gonna eat you alive. So you need to you need to like be all in on this. And I was like, All right, then I guess I'll be an art ed major. Um and then I ended up having him for like all four years of college because he taught all the art ed classes I found out. So you wound up not double majoring? No, I didn't. So I dropped graphic design, I just did art ed. Okay. Um, so yeah, I was a visual art education major with actually my concentration was in ceramics, so I know a lot of I took the mosttery, dude. Yeah, the most ceramics classes. Oh, yeah. But I almost had like a minor in painting.
SPEAKER_02:What got you into pottery? Because like up to this point you'd been doing a lot of drawing.
SPEAKER_03:So I yeah, I'd never done anything three-dimensional until I got to college at all. And really, I didn't take that many three-dimensional classes in college. Um, I had someone, I don't remember who it was, but someone gave me the advice that when I got there, that whatever my whatever I considered to be my weaknesses as an artist, that that's what I should focus on the most in college because I was gonna have to teach it and it would force me. And they were like, You already know how to draw, you already know how to paint, you're gonna learn in classes, but you're not gonna learn as much as you would if you focused on something else that you don't know how to do.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm so then you were like glass blowing, woodworking, pottery, all that jazz.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I made my concentration ceramics because I had never done ceramics at all until I was in college, and then I had to take all four years of ceramics classes to learn how to do it because I figured if I'm gonna teach high school level, I'm probably gonna have to teach ceramics and that and ceramics leads into like sculpture and that kind of stuff too.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. So do the like the Egyptian vases and stuff like that blow your mind?
SPEAKER_03:Uh it's pretty cool. So that's the kind of stuff that I liked in ceramics. I really I've always liked uh like hands-on, like hand building kind of stuff of like coil pots and things like that. Um, so yeah, that stuff's like pretty incredible of how they did it.
SPEAKER_00:How did they do it back then? I don't know, but I've seen stuff where like you can put like a flashlight inside and you can like see through the computer. Oh, because of how thin it is and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, with porcelain, it's pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_02:They didn't have like a potter's wheel.
SPEAKER_03:I'm assuming they may have like there there's still like kick wheels and things like that that you can um with like simple pulley systems. Like I threw on one in college where it was basically just like uh like a bar that went across the bottom and it had a string that went to like a spindle that goes underneath, and the string wraps around, and you just kick the wheel and it like spins the the wheel.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no way, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, super simple stuff. So it's it's stuff that's been around for you say super simple.
SPEAKER_02:I say I would never be able to make one of those. Uh not mechanically inclined. Um that's sick though. So so you got into three-dimensional due to uh trying to focus on your weakness. So yeah. And that was advice from who?
SPEAKER_03:I don't remember who gave me that advice, honestly. It was before it was either my art teacher in high school or it could have been that same advisor that told me not to do graphic design.
SPEAKER_00:So when did you get pick up the woodwork stuff? I feel like your Instagram's full of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I feel like I always I always enjoyed building things just in general. Like I always I my dad is very handy, and he pretty much all throughout high school we were remodeling our house, and I would help him with that. So I learned how to use a lot of tools, and and as a child again, I didn't really like TV, so I was outside like building ramps and and stuff like that. Um so I always knew how to use tools and but it never really translated into my art. Actually, when I so all throughout college, I did mostly ceramics and then like just my standard like painting and drawing classes. Then when I got out of college and first started teaching, I taught up in like Washington, Indiana, like an hour north of here. I taught there for three years.
SPEAKER_02:Shout out to the Amish, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I taught at North Davies actually. So I taught a lot of Washington. I've been up there a bond. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I taught there for three years, and for that time, um, all of my artwork was actually like spray paint-based. So I did like stencil making and um heavy spray paint. Like that was what uh that's what my thing was. And I started doing that in college more because I got into kind of like street art stuff. So I would like draw things out or take pictures, and then I would make like multi-layered stencils and go through and spray them all together. I've seen a handful of those like videos on yeah, it would be like super, super old stuff, and then that started um I started taking the layers from that, and that started going into more getting back into painting. So then I would still work on like wood, but I would do like spray paint backgrounds and then paint on top of it. Okay, and then eventually at the school I teach at now, we got like a laser and uh and they were making like signs and stuff with that, and I was just like, this is super cool. Like you guys could do so much cooler stuff than this with this machinery.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no kidding.
SPEAKER_03:Um, yeah. So then I like taught myself how to do more digital stuff, so then I could put it into the laser and cut stuff out, and then like it, but I think of it as like a timeline from like the stuff I did with spray paint, like kind of transition into what I do now because it's like a lot of layers and like thinking about how how things go together, but it's a lot of the same thought process that I had when I used spray paint of thinking of like how do I layer the color on top of it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and now like like we just showed the little this ghost guy and then lately.
SPEAKER_03:Adding movement. Yeah, the the thing and I think that kind of almost goes back to where's the rabbit at?
SPEAKER_02:You had the rabbit pulled up, yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think that honestly kind of goes back to my same um thought that I had as a ceramics major that what I loved about ceramics was functional artwork and things that people could interact with and like drink out of and eat off of and and use and stuff like that. Um and I've always missed that in my artwork that I've made because like there's something that's as an artist for me is just frustrating of just like, oh, it just goes on a wall and you can look at it. And like, yeah, that's cool and people appreciate it. But there's something so different about artwork that you actually like have to touch, yeah, that you hold and that you turn something and it it changes something.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna eat my cereal out of this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I feel like lately I've been trying to incorporate more like interactive things into the work so that it's um it's something that it helps translate the idea behind the piece a lot of the time too. But I also just think it's really interesting to have something that you like interact with.
SPEAKER_02:You need to go see a Kevin Titzer piece.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I need to see a stuff. Dude, the one I think he reached out to me at some point and like wanted to um start like a I think that was him that wanted to start like a group of artists where he sit down and talk.
SPEAKER_02:The way he worded that just now, like the functionality, I want you to be able to touch it and be a part of it and be the layers. Kevin literally said the same almost those exact same words.
SPEAKER_03:Does he live in Jasper?
SPEAKER_02:No, he lives. Well, we can't disclose that information. Jeez, uh just bleep it and toast. Well, not that anyone knows the location of this podcast, but uh here nor there. Uh Kevin, shout out to you, dude. You're a killer, but yeah, you should meet him. He's a hell of a dude. Um, but no, that's uh that's interesting. And then are you ever afraid? Like, so do you teach anything with um so so are you only teaching what do you teach now, I guess?
SPEAKER_03:Uh so currently I teach three levels of jewelry making, like like metalworking kind of stuff. Um, I teach AP college classes, which is like portfolio building basically, of like expressing ideas, yeah. Uh then I teach digital photography and then intro classes. That's what I'm teaching this year. But uh basically at this point, this is my 13th year teaching. So, like at this point, basically, like anything you can teach an art, I've taught it. Oh, I teach sculpture too.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, sick, dude. Sculpture. So is that like I I know nothing about three-dimensional art, sculpture. Is that like the clay stuff? Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think it would be any sort of like even this. Yeah, I was gonna say, even the rabbit, the whole, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So, like, uh, so like the difference when you're thinking about like sculpture versus ceramics, the only difference is that it's like ceramics is usually functional art. So, like if it's something that serves a purpose, like it's a cup, it's a plate, it's something like that, that's more ceramics and it's only made out of clay, usually, or some form of clay. Anything else is sculpture.
SPEAKER_02:Can you weld me a coffee cup?
SPEAKER_03:Hear me out. I actually don't know how to weld.
SPEAKER_02:Hear me out. Hear me out, guys.
SPEAKER_03:I could make one out of brass or copper.
SPEAKER_02:Let's take these two worlds, merge them together. I want to get some ceramic students and I want to get some welder welding students, some structural welders, bring them together, and we're gonna start making fun of it.
SPEAKER_03:So, my ceramics professor that I had all pretty much all four years of college, that's like kind of his thing. His name's Ted Neal.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but he's really inspired by like Midwest, just in general, like Midwest farm farming. Okay so he uses like a really specific clay that has a bunch of impurities in it, and then he fires it in a specific specific way that when it fires, all the impurities come to the surface and it looks like rust. Oh no. And then he goes through and he'll like hand weld like little metal features that get into the clay. Wow. So it'll be like a cup that looks like a s an old silo. What was his name again? Uh Ted Neal.
SPEAKER_02:Look this gentleman up, boy.
SPEAKER_03:I don't, yeah, Ted Neal ceramics, that's one right.
SPEAKER_02:Click that puppy. I gotta see some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so like his these are all wheel thrown. Sometimes he'll throw like concrete on a wheel too instead of like clay and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02:Like he's just out here mad scientisting some stuff, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, he was like a mad scientist of ceramics, but like um, so like that's all clay, but it's this specific type of clay that when it's fired in a specific way, like all of the impurities of the clay go to the surface. And it just looks like rusted metal, but he'll also incorporate a lot of um actual metal into the ceramics. So so like that one's all clay, but he's got one. If you scroll down, yeah, keep going, dude.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not done here.
SPEAKER_03:Uh let's see. Going down. He's got several that I know of that have oh, like if you click on that like white picture in the middle.
SPEAKER_02:The silo. No, up one more.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, going up one more, sorry. Yeah, the grain bin. So like the grain bin, like that base right there would all be like actual metal that he's like welded on. Yeah, like all welded together, and like the little stair steps that go up there, that's all metal, and that mesh at the top would all be actual metal. But the main that's like making those, and then like the cylinder part is clay.
SPEAKER_02:That's wild, wild.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he's killer. Or like the the one in the bottom left corner there, like that spoon or the little spoon shovel. Like, that's probably knowing him, that's probably for like a salt thing. So they're all functional too. Like, that's his thing. It's like it all has to be functional to be ceramic. So, like, that's probably something to put salt in, and then you take the little shovel and shovel out the salt.
SPEAKER_02:I gotta talk to this guy. I gotta I gotta talk. Can you put me in cahoots with him? I I need a metal coffee cup ASAP, dude. Uh, and I want to have him on the podcast because that is wild. That is wild. Super cool stuff. Um, Sonya, we kind of skipped, but so you're at ball state, you graduate with your art ed. Favorite moment at ball state. Did you have a favorite event or a moment or a thing? Uh maybe you met your significant other there. I don't know. Is there something that like stands out with like ball state when you think of college, like a big moment?
SPEAKER_03:My my favorite moment that I can remember, um it definitely isn't art related, but there was one night, so I was never I was never really big into like partying or drinking all that much. Like once I turned 21, yeah, I did some, but not I just wasn't my thing. Like I just never did. Um but there was one night that I had a roommate that came home um from the bars, and he like came in my room, it was probably like one or two in the morning, and I was playing video games, and he was like, Hey man, you want to go climb some stuff? And I was like, Yep. So like we we went to campus and we just started yeah, we went to campus and we just started like looking at stuff around campus and just trying to climb it, and we got all the way on top of their auditorium that was like. We did it. So like we we jumped across this thing and like it was the easiest climb. Like, it sounds like so scary. It was literally the easiest thing you could possibly. It was like you had to jump like four feet and that was it, and then you just walk up an incline up to the top.
SPEAKER_02:Do you ever watch those rushing kids that like climb towers, like free climb towers and yeah, the I forget what it's called?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, parkour? Like that. Yeah, parkour, but there's people that climb just like. Oh, just like the free climbing. Yeah, I can't I couldn't do that.
SPEAKER_03:If it was scary, I would have because I don't do heights.
SPEAKER_02:I used to climb towers for a living, and I watched those videos and I get nauseous.
SPEAKER_03:I had a former student that did, he's like the guy that would go up and change like the light bulbs on the I did that type of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, there's there's two photographers from here that I know that went to New York and they got on one of those bridges and they climbed the side beam up the side. I was like, dude, what like in the snow? Yeah, like their photos from there are crazy cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and it would have been real killer if they died.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I always so at that time that was right when I first started making like spray paint stuff and stenciling too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So we I had talked to that roommate about going back like the next day and make yeah, and like making a stencil of my face and spraying it in the top of the thing. I don't think we ever I can't remember if we did, but I don't think we did.
SPEAKER_02:You got much experience with the with the locomotives?
SPEAKER_03:So I've so I've made stencils so much, I've never I've on topic. I'm joking. I've literally never I've never tagged anything, I've never done any spray paint stuff. I always did it on canvas.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know why. Did you ever do like the tagging style with like the fat letters?
SPEAKER_03:I've never done that either. I've never had a big enough surface to try it. I want to, but I've never had um I've never had a big enough surface or like a wall that someone was willing to let me use.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, it's always so sick when trains go. I'm a big trains guy. Yeah again. You know what I mean? Love trains. Uh, but I love watching roll by and like looking at all the like the the tagged art and stuff. It's nice, dude. I feel like for as much as I grew up, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like for as much as I grew up as like a a punk kid and like into punk music and skateboarding, I feel like the biggest something. Yeah, I'm the biggest rule follower that like I'm terrified of getting arrested or getting in trouble.
SPEAKER_02:Like oh yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good way to be, man. It's a good way to be. So what what brings you down to the Evansville region from all the way up there?
SPEAKER_02:How did what was the transition? How did you get from ball state to Evansville?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I so I went to Ball State. I did, I actually did my student teaching in uh inner city school in Houston, Texas. So I went to Houston and I student taught there for three months. Uh, and then I thought that's where I would end up. That I had like my best friend from uh childhood moved to New Braunfoles, which is not too far from Houston, it's still a hall, but um, it's kind of by like San Antonio, Austin. So I was like, all right, I'll either move to Houston or I'll move to New Braunfoles. I know someone that's there, and then I just never got a job that like nothing opened up in in that area, so I came back home and started applying here. And I thought I would I basically just like I don't really care where I live, I don't need to live in Manchester, like that's fine. So I applied all over the state, and really the only job offer I got was at North Davies, like an hour north of here. So I went and taught there for three years. And then I was dating a girl that lived in Evansville, and uh eventually the job that I have now opened up, and she was like, Hey, yeah, she was like, Hey, you should probably like apply to that job. It seems like it would be a better school to work at, and then ended up getting that, moving down here, and then we broke up like immediately as soon as I took the job, and we bought a house together, and then um yeah, and then broke up like immediately. So then oh god, that's the worst. So, like I mean, clearly, yeah. So, like we got we had bought that house. I moved to Evansville, we broke up um within the first year that I was here for sure.
SPEAKER_02:I think I'm so sorry, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Um but then now who is my wife actually lived like around the corner from that. So like we were also in the middle of a remodel of the house. So I was like coming home and working on like remodeling the kitchen and fixing this stuff, and then it took like six to nine months, I think, to sell the house because I was still trying to finish stuff that needed to be done before we could sell it. Yeah, so in that time, like everything got resolved, like there was no hard feelings, like it was over. And then I also like that I was at that house outside mowing one day, and um a girl walked by walking her pug, and I just kind of like waved and she tripped on the sidewalk a little bit and then walked over. And like a week later, I was on a dating app, and she we started talking, and I recognized her, and now we're married and have a kid. And I still have that pug. And are you the girl that rolled her ankle in front of me? That's literally what I said, and she she lied and she was like, No, that I don't think that was me. I don't think that happened. And it was like a month or two later she finally like was like, Yeah, that was me. And I was like, I know it was you.
SPEAKER_02:Like you didn't have to lie for the last time. My man, dude. But that's a good sign that she finally came out and she was like, Hey, hear me out. Yeah, it was me.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, it's crazy. So, like how how at the time, how dark of a time that was, like, it basically led to my entire life now. Oh yeah, brother. It's a it's a good way of how it like you just never know what the journey is gonna do.
SPEAKER_02:And when you wound up at that house, that was when so you had accepted the job that you're in now currently.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I can't remember the exact timeline. So, like, I I was at the other school, I accepted the job down here and I moved and I lived in Haney's corner for a little bit of time. Okay, and then we bought that house, but I want to say that all happened in the first year as at the school I'm at now.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and then we I we broke up and over I think it was the second semester of that first year, and then I think then because by the next school year, I think we were already done. But I don't think I had sold the house yet.
SPEAKER_02:But okay. And you're currently uh you're a high school teacher, correct? Okay. All right, so I gotta get that straight. But now my follow-up question is how sick is it being a a high school teacher? Like, is it pretty sick or no?
SPEAKER_03:Uh can you what do you mean by sick? He means like cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Is it pretty sick?
SPEAKER_03:Uh it can be at times. Like, it just kind of depends. It's any other, it's like any other job.
SPEAKER_00:You got your kids that really want to be there, and you got your kids that don't want to be there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh I think luckily for me so like I'm actually the department head now and I kind of like run the whole art department and nice and all that. So I've had a lot of like good things with like my schedule that like I don't usually deal with a lot of kids that don't want to be in my class all that much. I still every teacher is going to, like, it's just gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's inevitable.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but luck, I've lucked out pretty well for the last few years.
SPEAKER_00:Better question here would be like, have any of your students reached out to you a few years later and been like, hey man, like your art your class changed my yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:And I think especially once you've had once you've taught for like a while and especially in the same place. Um, so like this is my tenth year at this school, and I taught for three years before that, so like 13 years total. Um, yeah, you definitely do like those five to ten year Yeah, like even now. Um, and it's cool to see because like I have a lot of former students now that are out and doing things that even from my class, like went and because I've taught digital photography for a really long time. Like a lot of those kids will go and do graphic design or something now. Um, you're like, oh, I saw this. Yeah, so and like a lot of them now, like uh in the area, like Ethan Douglas is one that like I had him in graphic design and like taught him how to use Photoshop when to like start off, and now he's a graphic designer, but he's also a digital photographer. He just did like a killer show uh actually last night um called Baggy Jeans that he goes through and like makes these whole big like installations and stuff. That it's super cool what he's doing.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, dude. Ethan Douglas. That's what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, super, super cool artist and does amazing things. Um I don't know how much he took from my class, but like it's just cool to see like those like it's like cool to see those kids that that go on to continue doing these.
SPEAKER_02:What if right before he took your class his dad was like, son, you're going into the trades. You know what I mean? And that stuff, like I have those conversations. And then your class was the one that was just like, nah, dad, this is like for me.
SPEAKER_03:And it's possible. Like I've had those conversations with kids, like even um over the years that like their parents will tell them, like, you can't do this, you're not gonna make any money. And it's like, yeah, you can. Like, they're these are all viable options, like there's different things that you can do. And the the big advice I usually tell them is like you don't have to live here. Like, if you want to live here, yeah, it's gonna be a little tricky because there's only so many graphic design companies, there's only so many teaching positions, there's only so many things here. But if you're willing to move, like you can find something anywhere. Like, it's not a good thing.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like it's tougher, it's tougher for musicians. I feel like you've gotta be really good as a musician to like make a living.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think it depends too on how you're looking at it.
SPEAKER_00:It depends on also how much you want to make. You can go and play at every bar in town and still make a a living, you know. But it's like I would like what uh what about those kids that like were really good at art growing up, and then like you know, their parents were like, Hey, you need to go to college for something else, get a trade, whatever, and then like they still have that artistic, like you like you said, you gotta work it out. Like, what would like your warmups be for somebody like getting back into art?
SPEAKER_03:Uh the suggestion I would always give is to draw. Like, it doesn't matter what medium you're into, it doesn't matter what you like to do. If you're into ceramics, draw. If you're into sculpture, draw. If you're in like literally anything, the more you practice drawing, the better you're gonna get at art. Like just in general.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's something about like pencil to paper, like just feeling it.
SPEAKER_03:And it's also a good practice in like observation of like always draw things from observation. So, like, actually look at it, pay attention to what's in front of you, and draw it as accurately as you can, and that will help you, that'll translate into any other art form.
SPEAKER_02:It's very that's a very good point. My grandpa used to do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he would bring people over that had like the old school projectors, and they would like project the billboard and like panels, and they would come stencil it, and then he would do it in like his living room, so I could like watch it, and I would always draw like I would get like a Pepe Le Pew birthday card or something, and I'd sit there and look at it and draw it, and he's like, That's cool, and you can draw cartoons all the time, but like here's a lamp, draw the lamp. Yeah, and he's like, not only the lamp, draw the way the light and the shadows, and like all that stuff as a kid.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because like there's you kids will fall into schemes a lot of the time that like if you if you just naturally so when it comes to art, it's all it's a skill set that you you can learn, and like it doesn't matter what where you are, like if you practice it enough, you're going to get good at it. Like that's all it really is. Um, but some people, just like any other thing in life, like you might just naturally be able to do it a little bit better than someone else without having to practice as much. Um, but what you see a lot of time in the art world is like those kids are some kids that will naturally have like a more of a tendency to it, they'll fall into something where they'll like draw the same cart, like they'll draw a cartoon character and someone will tell them like, oh, that's really good, and then that's all they'll draw for like years. Yeah, and they'll draw it over and over again in different positions and they'll get really good at drawing that that cartoon character. But if I like set a glass in front of them and say, like, hey, draw this, they can't do it at all because they've never practiced that skill. But I think like the biggest thing in art, just in general, um, is about observation of being able to really observe what's in front of you and really pay attention to. Like not just a bottle, but what's that bottle look like and what's that shadow on that bottle looks like in that moment of time.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like that's why artists are so good at picking out like what's an AI image versus like some of these other people that like maybe don't know it.
SPEAKER_03:It's the same thing, like my kids try and hide like being on their phones and stuff all the time. And it's like I've literally been trained how to observe things. Like that's like what college art is. Like you're you're in a room, there's a giant still life in the middle of the room, and you're drawing it for three hours a day, three days a week. Like you are just practicing and just observing, and you're going through and your professor's coming over and saying, like, that's not what that shadow looks like, you need to redo it. Like, that's what it is, and you're practicing over and over again. So, like, it's really not hard for me to tell that you're not looking at your paper and that you're playing on your phone underneath the table because you're not looking at your paper. Like, it's just you're you're trained to observe those.
SPEAKER_00:Right back in our day, you had to text on a T9 keyboard in your pocket without looking.
SPEAKER_02:I'm telling you, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, on the slide, dude, slide it up, ask Cha Cha what the answer is to this chemistry question.
SPEAKER_02:I'm telling you, dude. I miss Cha Cha. You were talking about the still life in the room. Um, that's so interesting because I feel like, and this just memory just like flick flashed into my mind for whatever reason. But like, what is the deal with people drawing naked people in the room? Is that a real thing that happens in art? Yeah. Did you ever have to draw a naked person?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:You did?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So it depends on the structure of like so that's in college, it kind of depends on the structure. So for like a ball state, I don't know if they still do it this way, but drawing one is still life, um, and painting one is still life, so you just have like giant still life set up in the middle of objects, and then painting two and drawing two are all um like nude models. So, like it's so the first one is just observation of just can you draw like this object? And then the second one is the human body, and the human body is just harder to draw. So, like, it's a whole different beast of like how to draw the human body.
SPEAKER_02:You almost have to know anatomy and like understand anatomy.
SPEAKER_03:So that's how I was taught to to draw the human body is like we we I drew the entire uh skeletal system, and then I drew the entire muscular system on top of the skeletal system, and then I was allowed to draw the skin on top of all of it because you had to understand what all of that was doing.
SPEAKER_00:Because the muscle looks different for the skin and certain skin.
SPEAKER_03:So, like to understand like why there's a shadow right here in the middle of my arm, because there's a muscle that goes across here and a muscle that goes across here, and that's what makes that shadow. Like you need to understand that to be able to accurately do it.
SPEAKER_02:Now, I do have a follow-up question. If I wanted a nude painting of myself, who do I go to here in town?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I mean, there's a ton of artists that would probably do it.
SPEAKER_00:You think you could also just take a look at the naked and ask ChatGPT to paint it, I mean, on something like that.
SPEAKER_02:Was that not wild for you when they were like, hey, we're gonna bring this naked person in? Uh everybody just draw it.
SPEAKER_03:It it is for like 10 seconds. And then like I think it's one of those things that like if you're not in the art world, like you build it up in your head about this crazy thing. Yeah, but like when you're in that environment and everybody's so serious and everybody's trying to learn and trying to do this, it's like the first 10 seconds. I mean, for me too, that like that was probably literally the first naked person I ever saw in in real life in front of me or something. Like I don't really remember, but like it seems like this big thing, but it's just like it's awkward for like they drop their robe and then they get in their pose, and you're like, Oh, okay, it's just another object I need to drop. Like, that's literally how you think about it.
SPEAKER_02:Do we know where they're getting those people from?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's other college kids. I thought about being a model actually when I was in college. Oh, so and that was like my plan because they get paid uh quite a bit of money, like especially back then, you were you were making probably like I want to say it was like$15 or$18 an hour in 15 years ago. Uh yeah, you can that'd be five. It depends though.
SPEAKER_02:Can you get on Indeed and start looking up there?
SPEAKER_03:So like No, it's funny because I'm job searching right now. Yeah. So like um, so that was like a campus job that you could sign up and do it. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, I'll do that. Like, that's a good way to make some money. Like you can make really good money. Um, and then I had the thought that I was like, well, I'm an art major already, so like I'm gonna know these people, and it's just gonna be like me walking in the room, like, oh hey Steve, how are you doing? And then like just drop in my pants and like getting it. Just drop and trout. Yeah, that's and so I thought that would be a little awkward. And then I also had the thought that I was like, I'm gonna be a teacher, and there I don't want to have like dozens of naked fan art out there of me.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I'm just gonna keep my genitalia to myself, I think.
SPEAKER_03:But like USI teaches, I'm sure they teach is teach uh figure drawing classes. Oh, they have. I assume UE does too. I'm almost certain that UE does.
SPEAKER_02:I'm pretty sure I heard some stories about some naked, some naked folks in the art department.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you just get so like honestly, just being in the room, you get so comfortable with it that it's it's just not that.
SPEAKER_02:It almost seems kind of probably like sterile, like almost like an anatomy class. Like you're like looking at a body.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it and the way it's presented to yeah, it's definitely not a sexual thing at all. Like the way it's presented, um, you're gonna have basically like a little platform in the middle of the room, there's gonna be big lights all around. Yeah, they go up, they get in their pose. The professor will choose kind of like what the theme is, like um, like if it's gonna be like an action shot versus like something like that, or a specific technique that we're trying to do. So, like if we're gonna do like a subtractive drawing where you cover the whole paper in charcoal and then you use an eraser and like erase the charcoal to draw things. Like if you're gonna do that, that's gonna take a lot longer than like actively putting charcoal on the paper. So, like if we're gonna do that, then the model's gonna be in like a more relaxed pose where they might sit in a chair and like hold that pose because they're gonna have to sit there for like 30 minutes. Right.
SPEAKER_02:That's I'm so glad I asked about that because that's interesting that you had to draw the skeleton, you had to draw the muscle, then you were allowed to finally ball state taught it.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know, I don't know how other colleges do it because that's the only college I went to. No, but to your point, yeah, it makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:You have to understand anatomy, like the femur is this long per ratio to the tibia.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and once you get into like the proportions of like the average person is like seven to eight head lengths tall. So however big you make the head, that's like if you stack seven to eight of them next to him, that's roughly how tall the person is.
SPEAKER_02:Gingis Khan's an expert of that. Um actually I think that rule of thumb came from Gingis Khan.
SPEAKER_04:No joking.
SPEAKER_00:But no, so like we're gearing up towards like a time limit that we got for the episode. But uh maybe we can have you in and talk more art teaching stuff. That'd be awesome to go in more a bit on art. I love that. But before we ask the like wrap-up question, I want to know like you just won some awards this year. What was that? Have you won awards previously? Like, what were what's it feel like to win an art award?
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah, I've won um it so there's like major awards and then like smaller ones. Cause like any show that you enter into, if it's a jurored show, um, especially if it's juror, like it's kind of an award just to be in the show a lot of the time. So if it's jurd, it means like you s like everybody submits their stuff, someone goes through and picks what gets into the show. So just to get into the show can be like a really big deal. Um, and then on top of that, they'll usually do some kind of award also. Like they'll go through and pick like okay, all these pieces get in, and all of these pieces don't. And then out of these pieces, like here's the top five that like I'll give like a first, second, and third place, and then a couple honorable mentions, and like there you go.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and it's pretty awesome. Like, you can win uh like money and things like that, which is pretty cool. Um it always I mean it's it's an award, it always feels good to win any kind of get any kind of recognition or any kind of award, especially when you're like working just to make the piece in general and just like trying to get into the show.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, and then the one that I just won recently um through the Arts Council is more of like uh it's a bigger like yearly award. So they do every year they do an award ceremony. Um and this one was the visual art award, so it was like their yearly like recognition of a visual artist in in the like extra good. It still doesn't feel real to me that like they picked me, and so that one is like actually there's a submission process that like uh people nominate. Um they'll so it's just like an anonymous ballot where like people will nominate. Like I nominated one of my students and and she won the like youth art award for it. Um and then they go through and like decide who wins from those nominations. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:So like you can't enter in yourself, but you can enter in other people.
SPEAKER_03:I think you technically could because it's anonymous, yeah. Well, it's I guess it's anonymous to everyone else, but it's not anonymous to them. They know who nominates.
SPEAKER_00:I think. Well, when Evansville did their TED Talk.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:But so this one was like their their once a year, they do this award ceremony.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, look at the locks on that guy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you'd be a great guest for your chef.
SPEAKER_02:Golly, look at this fella.
SPEAKER_03:He's an amazing artist. He actually made those plates that we're holding. He's tall as hell, too.
SPEAKER_02:Good Lord Almighty. Don't lose track of that picture. Um, and I love that they didn't leave the C out. Good on them that they put your middle initial in there. Yeah, it's always very important to me. It's such a little thing to other people, such a huge deal to me. Yeah, um, but okay, so we we've come a long way here. Uh and again, we're gonna have to have you come in again, uh, sir. I just I don't think I don't think that I've gotten my wealth of knowledge that I can soak up from you yet. I'm really glad I asked the nude model question. So pumped on that. Um very interesting shit, man.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like that's like the number one question I've gotten over in my lifetime of like people when they find out I went to college for art that they're like, Did you ever have to paint someone nude? It's like, yeah, I almost didn't know it's just gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02:Tom wasn't gonna ask. Yeah, he's weird about nudity though. Um, no, but on this on this journey, dude, you've been on this this art journey for uh couple of decades now. Um, you know, was there ever a time through this journey that you were just thinking maybe less professionally, uh, you know, getting into art or whatever? Or even on a specific project, or on a project where you were just ready to hang it up, like I'm done here, kaputs, you know. Um, and and then more if you had a scenario like that, what was the motivation that that kind of pushed you through that dark space that you had found yourself in?
SPEAKER_03:I think I mean there's definitely been projects that I've had where I've like scrapped projects and thought like this just isn't working. Um, but I also think going back to like just the mentality of how you're taught to be an artist within college, you make so much stuff that like you learn you learn that it the process is just as important as the product. So like you're going through and like it's okay to just like scrap something, to like work on something for months and be like, this isn't working anymore, I'm just gonna get rid of it, or I'm only gonna use this part of it. Hold off.
SPEAKER_02:Probably will because you're like we're good.
SPEAKER_03:Alright. So yeah, as uh in college you're taught like how the the process is just as important as the actual product. So you're making so many things that like you kind of don't have that feeling of like a lot of people feel like they have to keep the art and that it's like this very personal thing. But I feel like when you go through the college process, you get to the point where you're just kind of like, oh, it's okay if if it just kind of goes. So you you can spend like four or five months working on something and just be like, you know what, it's not working. I'm just gonna scrap it, or maybe just part of it's working and I'm gonna take that one part, or maybe this is leading to the actual piece that I'm gonna show that I'm just gonna play around with this for months. Um, like I even have some pieces that I've played around with the idea for like a year or two, and I've just never actually finished it because I it's just not working the way I want it to in my mind. So eventually maybe I'll get back to it and and work on it. Um, I think I've been pretty fortunate as far as like the art side of it goes, that like I've never really had that moment where I've thought about just like quitting altogether. Um I think by probably ultimately going the safer route and going into like education and teaching art. I feel like my whole life is art and like I'm just surrounded by art so much that like I can't really imagine have I can't imagine having that feeling because like that would be like for me that would be like just changing everything about me and everything about my entire life because like that's everything I do is art related. Like we like we own our store and that sells art supplies and we hang artwork up and we do all these art things. I go to work at school, I teach art all day, and then outside of that I make art and like probably teaching your kid art and doing art projects with your kids. I think the only thing that I could see is just like the burnout of talking about art and teaching art of like it's rare for me to make art at home. I usually make it like at school and things like that. Um, that that's like a real thing of just like getting home, just like you know what, I don't I don't I can't paint, like I can't do that right now. Like I've been working on it all day.
SPEAKER_02:It sounds like you have a very strong internal motor for this thing, and I think for that reason, sir, you have found the correct niche for yourself.
SPEAKER_03:It seems like it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When when work is not really work, you feel like you're not, you know what I mean? Like you never you never what's the saying? You never work a day in your life if you love what you do, or something like that. I don't know. But uh it it feels like that's kind of where you're at. Um for the folks at home, we did talk a lot about art, we talked a lot about ball state, but we did not talk very much uh about Bluestock Social. So we'll have to have you guys come in. But yeah, check them out. Just Blue Stock uh Blue Stock Social on Instagram. Also check out Matthew C. Fitzpatrick on Instagram to see all his work. Um yeah, and then the the last couple minutes, brother, we like to give to you for shout-outs or like upcoming upcoming dates or anything you got going on that you want to tell the two to five hundred people that are gonna listen to this, you know what I mean? Yeah, um, yeah. Anything, and this will come out in three weeks-ish. Yeah, around about three weeks.
SPEAKER_03:I think right now uh I've got pieces that are like entered into shows, but I'm waiting on like getting jury results to see if they actually get into the show.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um the most or the next show that I know I have a piece that will will be on display for that one, or I at least I think it will be, um, would be with the arts council, um, downtown Evansville, that that would be their spooky show. Oh, nice. Um so that's actually the piece that was the ghost, the ghost movie. Or no, uh, that was one I made for that show like three or four years ago now. I think.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but the last one, the Marsh it, are from uh Mars Attacks.
SPEAKER_02:Love that movie.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, which that's that's something like completely different than what I normally would do because a lot of my pieces are about like very specific ideas and like things that I'm trying to get across.
SPEAKER_02:But that's what you get.
SPEAKER_03:This one I was like, uh, I just want to like I love that movie, I just want to make something fun instead of like putting all this thought process. Um so like that one's for the spooky show and those. I know we drop off that work like this week, so hopefully that um would be up on display there. Outside of that, everything else is kind of like up in the air that I'm just kind of waiting to hear back from the results and see.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'll tell you what, if you plug it to us, we'll plug it to the world, man. Um if you share something, we're sharing something. So uh I just really, really appreciate your time. Um I'm gonna call I'm gonna call you Matt because I'm I'm a little slower than your average bear. Uh Matthew is a lot for me.
SPEAKER_03:Honestly, everybody calls me Matt. It's just it's literally and that all started when I was in high school that I have a terrible signature, and my brothers made fun of me so much that I would like draw stuff and they'd be like, How do you draw this? And then you write that on the corner. So all of my artwork I put MCF on it, and then it didn't make sense to me to not include like the C. So like it's all it turned into Matthew C. Fitzpatrick because I signed everything MCF.
SPEAKER_02:It's a beautiful signature, brother. You're making beautiful art. Yeah. Um, you could have done anything else on a super late Sunday evening. So thank you so much for coming in uh and and uh chewing the fat with us, man. Um I got nothing else. You got anything else, sir?
SPEAKER_00:I think this has been another thrilling episode of the Days Grimm Podcast. My name is Thomas Grimm.
SPEAKER_02:My name is Brian Michael Day, and this has been Matthew C. Fitzpatrick. Thank you so much, sir.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.