The Days Grimm Podcast
The Days Grimm, "arguably Indiana's most comical, thrilling, and controversial podcast", This three-pronged mandate acts as a primary filter for their guest selection. The "comical" aspect is reflected in its official genre of "COMEDY INTERVIEWS" and its history of hosting local stand-up comedians. The "thrilling" component is evident in interviews with individuals who have extraordinary life stories, such as people who survived shootings, rare medical conditions, and combat. Finally, the "controversial" element is demonstrated by Brian & Thomas’ willingness to engage in difficult or unfiltered conversations, touching on topics like homelessness, artificial intelligence, and religious hypotheticals.
A crucial element of the show's tone is its tagline, "Brought to you by Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)". This self-aware and raw positioning signals a modern comedic sensibility that embraces vulnerability and finds humor in personal struggle. The podcast's brand is not built on polished narratives but on the authentic, often messy, intersection of hardship and humor. The most compelling guests are those who have navigated a "Grimm" reality and emerged with a story to tell, and ideally, a sense of humor about it. This dynamic is the core of the show's appeal and the primary filter for identifying a story worth telling.
The Days Grimm Podcast
Ep.236 Lawman Tactical with Bryan Bishop
Step inside the world of elite training, tactical expertise, and real-life law enforcement with Bryan Bishop, founder of Lawman Tactical Guntry Club in Evansville, Indiana. In this action-packed episode of The Days Grimm Podcast, hosts Thomas Grimm and Brian Day sit down with Bryan to uncover his journey from small-town athlete to sheriff’s deputy, canine handler, and U.S. Marshals Task Force officer.
Discover how Bishop’s career led to the creation of Lawman Tactical — a one-of-a-kind facility combining a state-of-the-art indoor shooting range, 24/7 fitness center, dojo, and realistic force-on-force training that prepares civilians and professionals alike for life’s most critical moments.
Hear wild stories from the field — from police academy training and jailhouse chaos to high-risk warrants and his legendary K9 partner, Bosco, who became an Evansville icon.
This episode dives deep into:
- The founding of Lawman Tactical Guntry Club
- Reality-based training and home defense classes
- Life lessons from law enforcement and the U.S. Marshals Task Force
- The emotional bond between officers and their K9 partners
- How discipline, respect, and real-world readiness save lives
Whether you’re a fan of tactical training, law enforcement stories, or local business success, this episode delivers adrenaline, insight, and inspiration in equal measure.
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- Our link tree: linktr.ee/Thedaysgrimm
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[The Days Grimm is brought to you by]
Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03:Hello. Hello, hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to another thrilling episode of the Day's Grimm. My name is Brian Michael Day. My name is Thomas Grimm. Almost had almost messed up our name data game.
SPEAKER_02:Three of space and you forgot who you are, where you are. Baton a thousand.
SPEAKER_03:Bat in a thousand. Um doing okay, Tom?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh will you do me a favor?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, joining us in the Day's Grimm studio, which is now actually located in his complex at the Lawman Complex. Mr. Lawman himself, Brian Bishop. How are you?
SPEAKER_04:Doing well, gentlemen. What's up, sir? How are you? Doing well. How about yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Doing okay. Uh kind of a gross Sunday. I was kind of hoping for better weather, but you know, it is what it is. Um, but yeah, so I can't thank you enough. You were kind enough to hook us up with this space. Um, and it's uh we're putting it together and we're gonna figure it out, too.
SPEAKER_02:Well, like what's I think so cool is like it's in the complex, and in this complex is like everything. Like, go ahead and just like uh give our listeners like an elevator pitch, who you are, what you do, but then also like what all does lawman offer out here?
SPEAKER_04:Oh man, it's uh it's a lot of things, right? So again, my name is Brian Bishop. I appreciate being here with you guys today, man. It's it's uh definitely an honor. So um, Lawman Tactical Country Club. Um, you know, it's a lot of things that it offers, but it's more about the experience and and what we stand for here. So we have a state-of-the-art indoor shooting range up to 25 yards, uh, 24 access fitness center. Uh, we have a dojo where we do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, some other martial arts, um, just kind of a state-of-the-art training facility is what it is.
SPEAKER_02:One thing that I thought was super cool was you have like female led female classes. Absolutely. You should jump to some of those classes.
SPEAKER_05:Damn. We're like 30 seconds in. I'm already getting roasted.
SPEAKER_03:Uh and don't be afraid of that mic either, too. The closer the better. Just swing that puppy in for me. You could probably crank him up a decibel too. Um, but yeah, you guys do uh really good at like helping people like stay alive here. Like earlier, Tom was saying that I'm what did you call me? Anxious, nervous. You said something. Sure. I mean, you're not wrong. You're still batting a thousand. And I said, I'm still alive though, right? Yeah, you do a good job at like keeping people alive here. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:Well, and uh one thing that was cool too is like uh the other day you had like was that paintball? Like paintball setup through what was that like?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so it's a force on force. We do a lot of reality-based training. Um, in my opinion, that's probably the closest thing you can get to to real situations. So we offer what we call problem-solving classes. We will people we put people in controlled stress situations, make them solve the problems, then debrief it with them uh from our experience and give some give some input on what maybe they could have done a little differently.
SPEAKER_03:Was that the house one that you're talking about?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh well, I saw a post. Uh I don't know if it was on your Facebook or your Instagram. It might have been both.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so last Thursday we did a home defense course basically teaching people um you know what the priorities are inside the home, what that looks like to protect your family, um, everything from how to think through those problems to basic tactics, if you got to clear through your house, what that looks like, what the family's doing, what the plan's doing, and then you know, if you encounter a situation, how you deal with that with lethal force.
SPEAKER_03:And it was uh it was like a two-story house, right? If I'm thinking correct. Actually, three. It was a very large home. Three-story house, and you do that once a month.
SPEAKER_04:We do. Um, so that's called our problem solving class. Um, you know, this month it was home defense. Next month it may be some vehicle class where we teach people how to protect themselves inside the vehicle and out if they get carjacked, stuff like that. We do a lot of active shooter stuff, church scenarios, just realistic, real life training. Um, because again, in my opinion, that's that's the way you learn.
SPEAKER_02:But 100% like we in several of our meetings, you've talked about always being like prepared and like having a game plan with your family and stuff like that. And we saw some posts like your kids even made like an outline of your house, and like, hey, if somebody comes in, you know, and they had like a whole schematics drawn. Absolutely. It was pretty rad.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's sick, dude. Um, so we're gonna we're gonna dive real deep into Lawman Tactical today. That'll probably be a good sizable chunk of the interview, but I do want to know who the hell Brian Bishop is. You know what I mean? Where does he come from? Where do they make Brian Bishops at? You know what I mean? So we're they're obsolete, they're deleted. God made one, he's like, we're done.
SPEAKER_04:That's it. So where where are you from, man? Yeah, so uh practically grew up here in Evansville. Okay. Um moved here probably in eighth grade from upstate New York. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We gotta we gotta stop there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta talk about that. I'm from here, but I was born. Were you born in New York? I was actually born in Kentucky and then moved to New York when I was like two.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. Well, let's talk about that. Okay, so what dragged you out of the backwoods to the northern backwoods, I guess. I think they're all backwoods. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Upstate New York is backwoods.
SPEAKER_03:Is it any different up there? Are they just the same people and they sound different?
SPEAKER_04:It's just a lot colder and they talk different.
SPEAKER_03:So how did so what drove you out of Kentucky to northern upstate New York?
SPEAKER_04:Uh so my stepdad at the time was a truck driver uh and he got a position um to relocate and some different opportunities. So um spent a while in New York, like I said, and then he got an opportunity to come back this way in Evansville and uh thank God we did that.
SPEAKER_03:Is his family from here? Like is the rest of your family from around here?
SPEAKER_04:All his family's from upstate New York.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, no kidding. Okay, nice, dude. So you stay in upstate New York until eighth grade. Yeah. What so in that time frame, like would you play sports? Yeah, did you like wrestle polar bears? Like, what do they do up there? You know what I mean? Because I'm just I'm curious. I think they chopped down apple trees there, right? There's that Washington. No, wrong state, dude. I don't know about that. Uh what'd you do for fun, like all the way up to like I guess your junior high years, you know what I mean? What was that like being?
SPEAKER_04:I was always into sports, love sports, football was kind of my go-to. Um, you know, in upstate New York, there's just not a lot to do other than shovel snow. Uh, you know, I remember as a small kid getting literally snowed in my house for three days. Feet and couldn't leave, yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable. Um, but you know, they they learn how to mitigate those things to get through them. So a lot of sports. Um, you don't really remember a lot, not the early childhood, but I know that I've always kind of been into football.
SPEAKER_02:So uh New York winner versus Evansville winner, not bad here.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_03:I think well, hold on, hold on. I will defend, I will I'll gladly be the only person to defend my fellow Evans Villians. I feel like they're two different winners though. They really are like the winners that you get here are just wet winners that freeze, and then up there they're very dry with a crap load of snow. It's like two different winners. Absolutely. One you can't leave your house, and the other one you can leave your house. You probably shouldn't, but you can.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I was just meant like coming here, you're probably more like our winners like you aren't probably as like freezing to you.
SPEAKER_04:Uh I I would agree with Brian. I think it's uh here it's just ice, you know, it's rainy and it's ice, it's cold. There it's snow, and they learn how to deal with it. I mean, you could get a foot of snow and the roads are clear in an hour, but just because they understand.
SPEAKER_03:They just got all the protocols in place, all the right people in the right places. So, what was the cold do you like roundabout? What was the coldest temperature you ever saw there? Do you rem does that stick out? I don't because I know it gets cold up there. I have a couple of buddies that trained up at Fort Drum, which is like way north New York, right? And they said they were out doing PT physical training in like negative 17 degree weather with like three feet of snow on the ground and they're out running, like doing a six-mile. Crazy. It's fucking insane. Yeah, bro. They had to wear chains on their feet because it's so bad.
SPEAKER_02:So like wild. You moved here freshman year. Was that was was that like a weird change? Like, because you hadn't been back to Evansville ever, really, since in that time. So like coming back and then having to find a new friend group as like coming into being an early adult, was that tough?
SPEAKER_04:Uh I feel like in my younger childhood we kind of moved, even like we're in within the same state. I was feeling like I was always jumping school to school and kind of had one of those uh situations, so it really wasn't anything new to me. Um, but we got to Evansville, I think I was probably like eighth grade, so I was still young enough where I think it's easier to find friends as kids. You know, we're still out at that time. Kids rode bikes and went out and did things they shouldn't have did outside playing baseball. We were kids, right? Right. Um, so it was pretty easy transition for me.
SPEAKER_03:Playing on trains and shit. Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_02:Those were the days, man. So which high school did you go to here in Evansville?
SPEAKER_04:I went to Harrison High School.
SPEAKER_02:Harrison.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah. Eastside, dude. Represent. God bless you back there. Don't act like I didn't hear that. Um yeah, dude. Harrison, they had a uh they had a good football program just a couple years ago. They made a good run, I think, didn't they?
SPEAKER_04:Do you keep up with the high school at all? Not really a couple years ago. It's been quite a while. Has it? It has been quite a while. Damn, dude. Okay, maybe I'm just like losing track of time. When I was in high school, though, we we were legit. Uh my junior, senior year, I think we went to regionals and stuff. We were we were very good at football.
SPEAKER_03:Have you gone and seen any games like in the last five, ten years? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:My oldest son is 19. He graduated last year and he played football. So this was our first year of No Friday Night Lights, kind of sad.
SPEAKER_03:But that's a bummer. But the uh well, I bring that up because like what was it five years ago, six years ago, maybe ten years ago, the city of Evansville put AstroTurf down for all the terrible terrible ideas, terrible.
SPEAKER_04:They look cool though. They look cool, they look cool. You don't get up with that big clump of grass in your helmet, no stains, the stains. And it hurts, man. That stuff hurts.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and they're talking now. Have you played on AstroTurf? Yeah, uh I'm trying to think if I've played football. I have for sure played soccer on AstroTurf. But they've talked about the um the effects of AstroTurf and like how it's damaging the ankle, knee, and hip more than just like a regular grass field would because there's like less give to it. Um, especially like you were saying, like in those wet conditions, like but it looks cool in the summer.
SPEAKER_04:I bet it's I mean, we help coach football for a while, and I bet it's 20 degrees hotter on those fields.
SPEAKER_03:Just because the underlay, just the underlay, yeah. The underlay is like black pellets or whatever. It's like rubber. Yeah, it's terrible, crazy, but they look cool. So shout out to Evansville for damaging all our kids. So in high school, did you know you wanted to get into law enforcement?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, no way. No way, no way fat chance, no way. Anybody that knows me is like that dude, no way. Uh because you were a troublemaker or what? No, no, I wasn't a troublemaker. I just uh, you know, school wasn't really my thing at the time, and I just I don't know. It never really military kind of was was was back there in my mind, but always kind of had a business mindset of like, hey, what if I could do this or what if I could do that? So I was kind of business mindset. Um so yeah, definitely nothing in in the brain for law enforcement.
SPEAKER_02:So as you're wrapping up high school and like your future's in front of you, what do you choose to do? Where you go? You graduate?
SPEAKER_04:I uh I graduated from Harrison, um, tried the college thing for a while, uh, went to USI for a little while. Um, and then a good friend of mine, uh, his parents owned an oil and gas business. Um at the time, the oil and gas business was just pumping it all over the all over the country. Um he offered me a position to come work for them, so I left USI and went back to upstate New York.
SPEAKER_03:Oh God, can't get enough of it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I couldn't. Uh so I was a landman upstate New York uh at 19 years old, trying to convince farmers to let us drill for oil or gas on their properties. You know, Illinois was right there, right? I did. At the time, methane gas was huge in upstate New York and Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_03:So every oil and gas company was And you said you were trying to sell these farmers. So were you like a salesman?
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:You were nice, dude. Okay. So how long do you so that kind of like goes back to your businessman, business mindset, like shaking hands, kissing babies type of feel that you had? Right. Did you feel at home there in that position?
SPEAKER_04:Um, I did. It was a little, I mean, a 19-year-old kid getting out of a car and going to talking to a farmer, I'm like trying to get them, you know, just to give me a minute to talk to them. Yeah. Um, and that's where I understand relationships, you know, understanding and making them understand that like they could trust me. I wasn't just, you know, some kin there trying to take away their land. So a lot of valuable lessons that I still carry from that experience of my life for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, nice. Can we can't can we take a quick time out? Can you pull up logic? I just want to make sure he's coming through okay. Uh okay, and we're back. Dude, sorry about that. Um, but yeah, so so you did feel at home in that position.
SPEAKER_02:Uh but but and like sales is like the perfect industry to like learn people, read people, learn how to not only see like you can just see multiple sides of like what not only what you can do for them, but what they can do for you, and like how to make that exchange like visible in their mind. I feel like and as a 19-year-old, that's like that's gold at 19.
SPEAKER_03:Did you ever become a efficient at that job or did do you wind up leaving before you ever kind of got on your feet and started, you know, feeling really, really comfortable?
SPEAKER_04:No, I uh actually at the time, you know, my first week there, I leased over 2,000 acres, which was almost unheard of. Damn, okay. Um, so I I think it was just um I I wasn't really I did I didn't really come off as a salesman. It was more I was trying to be genuine and like, hey, here's what we're doing, here's what we can offer you, here's an experience, you know, that you probably don't want to pass up. Yeah. You in or out, dude. Yeah, I mean, i i they they're gonna drill around you, bro, if you don't do it. So I would recommend you doing this. And uh you know, I think it helped that the entire state was was crazy busy with it. Um it definitely helped my uh uh my goal, but it it I was pretty successful at it. Okay. How long did you stay in? Um I was in upstate New York for probably a year and a half straight. Damn. So what what caused you to leave upstate again? So um during that point, the oil and gas business took a tank, um you know, and everything just stopped. So I came back to Evansville, um, and that's kind of when my whole life shifted again.
SPEAKER_02:What did what happened when you said shifted again? I mean you come back and you're just like this industry that I spent the last year and a half right out of high school and is basically going down. Right. I need to pivot. It was scary.
SPEAKER_04:Um and then I had a good buddy of mine that worked for the sheriff's office, and I was in town. I think it was like over Thanksgiving break, something like that, and he's like, Hey bro, like come do ride along, let's just catch up. And then my life forever changed. What was that first ride along? Like, was it sweaty? Was it night shift? Yes, downtown? No, no, no. We um he was I think on the east side somewhere. I I don't remember where we were. I just I remember the first time that he hit those lights and sirens and ran code three. I'm like, this is why uh Brian Bishop was born.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, dude. Hell yeah. So it got a little sweaty. Yeah, I fell in love immediately. That's exciting, dude. There's something intoxicating about like uh you could just go from zero to a hundred real quick. You know what I mean? When you're like just sitting, breathing, and then it's like action, and you just go. There's something really, really intoxicating about that. And I understand that.
SPEAKER_02:So after that night, you like what's the uh do you enlist like what's the proper words?
SPEAKER_04:No, so actually, um at the time to get hired to the sheriff's office, kind of your your foot in the door was to work at our jail downtown. Um yeah. Oh no, it's the time at the time I didn't see all the benefits, but it definitely was probably one of the best things I ever did for my law enforcement.
SPEAKER_02:So your life, dude, that is ruhzy. Okay, 21 walking the jail halls, and like that you I'm sure you maybe see a few when I talk in there your age, but most people are gonna be like way older. What's that like commanding respect?
SPEAKER_04:Like, that's gotta be Well, and I don't I think that's the biggest misconception is you know, you don't go into that jail commanding respect. It's a mutual thing, right? Um I mean there's it's survival to fittest in there, and there's grown men in there that would have ate my lunch, literally. Um so it was again trying to understand people and just mutual respect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh and that went a long way. Um, you know, still to this day I have street creds, you know, because people knew I always respect them and they respected me, but if you cross the line, we know where this goes, right? Yeah. Uh so the jail was probably other I probably learned more at the jail than I did in the police academy as far as just especially local, who's who, like who are the drunks, yeah, who are the guys who just talk, freaking things, who are the fighters, right? Who are the violent ones? Um so I learned a lot, definitely a lot working uh worked two years in our jail downtown.
SPEAKER_03:That sounds like a crash course in um like practical psychology, you know what I mean? Like you're really getting to see kind of like the dirtbags and the mistake makers and the drug dealers, you know what I mean? Like, and you're learning how to interact with them and like get what you need. Hey, get out of your cell, time to go eat, and then they get what they need from you, vice-versa.
SPEAKER_02:This would be interesting. So, like on that same topic, were you like a floater in high school from like friend group to friend group, or did you have like one solid friend group that you stayed with?
SPEAKER_04:No, I've always kind of been a guy of small circles. Gotcha. Um, so yeah, I I never really floated around too much.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't know, because like from sales to then being in the jailhouse and like adapting to like, hey, this person's this sort of way, like I gotta maybe put on this suit when I talk to him, and this person I gotta put on like a different mask.
SPEAKER_04:No, but I I would say there's some that's probably a valid statement. Um, you know, because some people you got a little bit more stern. Some people you gotta understand they're just manipulators trying to get what they want. Like, so it you gotta learn a lot to survive in there. And essentially, I mean you're locked up for eight to twelve hours a day too with these guys.
SPEAKER_02:So um mutual respect goes a long way. Was there any overlap where you're still working at the jailhouse, but in the police academy? No. No.
SPEAKER_03:What was your favorite thing about working in the jail?
SPEAKER_04:Um probably, you know, trying to see some of these guys that would actually learn from it. You know, they would come in and then see them transition back out and actually do something worthwhile and make a difference. Right. Yeah. Actually see it, which is pretty rare. Yeah. You know, a lot of these guys, it's uh and it also taught me in there that I think uh you are a product in your environment. I never really understood that as a kid. I mean, I we all have choices, right? But if you're seeing these things over and over when you grow up, that's what's normal. Yeah. You know, if dad sells dope all day and that's how he feeds a family, that's normal. Everybody else's dad sells dope, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Your dad's selling dope, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh no, I get it. Um, but it's funny to think about like that's the proper name of a jail is like a correctional facility. You don't think about it enough, but like they're there to be corrected. Like you've you fucked up. Now you're here. Let's learn from this. Yeah. And that's a really cool thing. Uh is not what I would have guessed your answer would be.
SPEAKER_02:And then now the flip side of that, was there anything like that you just thought was crazy, like intuitive of these guys like making meals or like uh one dude electrocuted himself on a toilet one time as a death of the week? Like, was there any like weird makeshift stuff going on?
SPEAKER_03:Toilet wine, you got anything going on like that, dude? Shit square bottles. If these you ever see something cool like that? I got stories on stories. Dig okay, give me your favorite. I gotta hear a one. You gotta have like one that sticks out that you love.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I can't remember what year it was, maybe 2002. There was a guy that he actually set the jail on fire downtown. Like set it on fire. Like we had to evacuate the whole jail. Yeah, when the jail was really a jail, like it was gladiators. Like I know what you're talking about. The third floor of the old jail, it was gladiators. Like it was it was a different level. It was completely violent. It was it was a different level.
SPEAKER_03:It's like Russia in the 40s, dude. Yeah, dude. It was a real deal.
SPEAKER_04:Like you it and you know, and again, that's where that the street creds and that mutual respect. A lot of guys couldn't go into a cell like an officer, right? Yeah. Afraid that they wouldn't come back out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I feel like any of those I could have walked right down the middle and would have been okay because it was that that res that mutual respect. Absolutely. Uh, but we had this one cat, man. He uh I'm so pumped. His last name was Fangers, and he was always Derek Fangers, always fidgeting with something. Bro, and that was 2000. This is his real name. This finger. That's his real name. Last name Fangers. Nice, dude. Killer last name. He's a different cat. So uh he his thing was he would do something, right? He'd get put in an isolation cell where we had to keep him in there by himself.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And then he would do something like clog the toilet, try to flood the jail, set the jail on fire, and then he would basically poop all over the place and wipe it on him from head to toe, and would stand there like, come get me. Like, bro, there's certain lines in the sand that I can't cross, and that's one.
SPEAKER_03:You ever hear of like nobody wants to fight the naked guy? That's what I was saying. Nobody wants to fight the guy covered with poop.
SPEAKER_04:He was naked with poop. We ain't doing it.
SPEAKER_03:Not we ain't dancing, dude.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, get get the fire back in the house. Fire hose, open the port. Yeah, get into the business.
SPEAKER_01:You wanted it flooded, here you go.
SPEAKER_02:But literally, all fingers, dude.
SPEAKER_04:That was his jam, bro. And like I remember many times getting off the elevator coming into work. I worked second shift, and you would get off the elevator, it's like, ugh, like you could smell fingers is at it. Yeah, like it'd smell like nothing but poop. I was like, I'm out taking a sick day. But yeah, if you ask any of the old school guys at the jail, he uh he left quite the impression.
SPEAKER_02:So what was police academy like? Is that up by um like right by Vincent's? Is that the by that jail out there?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so it's actually up in Indianapolis, like Plainfield is where the academy, but I actually was the first academy here. So we started a southern academy um basically at Evansville, and I was the first academy to go through that here.
SPEAKER_02:Class one class one. Nice, dude. What was that experience like? Because I mean, it's completely different from being like just going and clocking in at the jail every day. It's like actual training, but then also learning laws and it was it was um I mean, honestly, a walk in the park.
SPEAKER_04:It wasn't anything. Um, you know, again, school wasn't my jam. Um they throw in a lot of information, criminal law, different things you gotta, you know, but um all the other stuff, man, like the range time, the offensive tactics.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, that was just dude, it was that was so the hardest part's books during that time for you. So you're just like drinking from a fire hose, drinking from a fire hose. Like, what was one of the things that helped you get through that? Was it just like reiteration? Because like I'm the same way. So, like anytime I took a special class or a special course in the military, um, all the practical hands-on shit, I thrive at like I'm good, I can figure it out. Give me a couple rounds and I'll I'll get it on the third round. Book-wise, not the same. So I find that if I have to learn something pertinent, I'll like take the information, the text, or whatever that you're gonna give me, I'll read it and comprehend it to the best of my knowledge. And then what I don't, what I comprehend the least, I physically write it down and like write rewrite it down and rewrite it down and rewrite it down and then make notes. If I rewrite it down, it still doesn't make sense. I like make notes and like ask questions like what did you use to kind of tactics or different study measures, if you will, to get through that? What helped you the most?
SPEAKER_04:Um basically the same thing. So I had a good friend that went to the academy with me, and and uh he wasn't very smart either, he was like me. So we had to spend a lot of time. Yes, I pick it up, I put it down. He was that kind of guy. I get it. Um But you know, so we spent a lot of time after classes kind of doing, you know, the whole flashcard thing, all that. But I think it helped because I was so intrigued into that work um that it made it easier. You know, it was different than going and doing an algebra test in college that I knew I would never motivation, right? Right. So I knew that the better that I understood the law or these things, it would be beneficial for my career.
SPEAKER_02:So um is there like a lot of like hands-on training? Like, hey, you know, this is like we're we're gonna learn, like you gotta make an arrest, you gotta read them your the Miranda rights to the like this, this, this, this, and then you go out in the field and just practice it. Is it like learn this lesson next day, practice the lessons, like practicality? Yeah, so obviously with that job, there's a lot you gotta know, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Um, the law, what you can do, can't do, use of force, um, all that. So it was kind of like a a building block, you know. You you kind of learn the base, and then every day you build off that, but you're always throwing those same things into scenarios. And and again, like we talked about before, we did a lot of scenario-based training. Um, so that really helps kind of drive home like you know, the point we're trying to get across and make people understand. So, again, a big reason that we do a lot of force on force and scenario-based training here is because that's the best way to learn in the reward.
SPEAKER_02:What about when they like update a law or like tweak a law? Like, how does that just come to you guys on like a in a manila folder and it's just like, hey, this is this month's update on like what's changed?
SPEAKER_04:Um, typically most of the laws would change around July, so we would get like an update on like, hey, here's a new traffic law on X or whatever maybe. How annoying is that?
SPEAKER_03:Because you know they have to be changing tiny little things all the fucking time. You know what I mean? And you're always like, if you've got a guy that you know has a quarter pound of marijuana in his car and you're looking for the slightest thing to pull him over, right? You need those tiny little inklings to like, uh, gotcha on this. Hey, why does it smell weird? Right. You know what I mean? How annoying is that that when they would tweak these little things, were these documents just like pages on pages every July, basically?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but thankfully they had, you know, we would have our administration somebody come in that would dumb it down for us dumb guys and be like, hey, you know, for this, you gotta make sure you can articulate this. And that's a lot what police work is. You gotta be able to articulate everything you're doing. So I like that.
SPEAKER_03:I like that a lot. I want to stay on school for a second though, for uh the academy. Um so like for the military, you leave for for boot camp, basic training, wherever you're going, um AIT, all that stuff, but you don't leave for the academy, right? Like you still get to go home every night.
SPEAKER_04:So again, we were the first class to do that here. Um there was advantages, disadvantages of that. You know, they still have the academy up in playing field that some departments send them to, but um, they found it a lot more cost effective to keep guys home and not paying, you know, meals and right and lodging and all that stuff. Yeah. Um but again, I think that's uh it was nice for me at the time, right? Because I'm I'm still at home, I'm sleeping in my bed every night, and I'm not getting yelled by an instructor to get up every morning. Did you have kids yet? No. No kids yet. I was gonna say if you had kids, that'd also be beneficial. Or not, right? Because going home and trying to stay in that zone and study and do the things, it's easier to get distracted with the family home. Yeah, that's valid too. But yeah, but now looking back, like I wish we would have been sent to playing field just for the experience and just for that.
SPEAKER_03:Um You got a lot of buddies that went out of plain field, I would assume. Like a lot of old heads, when you finally got into the sheriff's department, they were all playing field guys. Correct, yes. Yeah. And then what did they say they hated the most about plain field? What was something that they like all kind of I mean, I would assume it's probably You'll never understand. You didn't have to go to Plainfield. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04:Like I I would assume it's probably some of the same stuff in the military, you know. It's um, you know, some of the instructors up there, they they like to remind everybody that they're instructors and that uh they're in charge. Yeah. You know, and especially for an older cat going through, sometimes it can be hard to to swallow that. Um But you know, I think overall it's not a whole lot different. I mean, don't get me wrong, like we had rules, we had to do PT, we had one of the guys that ran our academy was a former drill instructor. Um so he kept things. I mean, it was it was almost like a boot camp, but okay, but uh I got to go home every night.
SPEAKER_02:So what was it like you graduate and then I assume they pair you up with a guy that's been like has a whole career in law enforcement?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so you go through what they called FTO at the time, field training officer. So four months you basically ride with a different person um and they teach you things, right? And then they grade you. So, you know, I would say ride with Brian once month one, and he would grade everything I do and then give feedback, and then month two I'm expected to perform better. And if I don't, I get sent back, and then after a couple of those, you're out. Oh, no shit. Yeah, it's a little stress during during that because you're on probation. They can't. And how long is that for? Four months?
SPEAKER_02:Four months.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Stressful four months, man. A little bit. Did you learn a lot in those four months? I take it though.
SPEAKER_04:I did. Um, and I I think it's uh I'm glad that they put you with different people, uh, because everybody teaches different, everybody has their own way, and I think you know, the way it was it was brought to me is you take a little bit of what you like from this guy, a little bit from what you like this guy, and then kind of build your own.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so it definitely had its benefits. But if you get put in a car for a month straight with a guy that you just really don't mesh with, or it's it could be a long it can be a long 12 hours. And when I came on, we were working 12 hour shifts, so it was 6A to 6P, or no, 6P to 6A. And you know, you're in February and it's dark when you go to work, it's dark when you get off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:At two in the morning, there's not a whole lot of things moving out, you know, when it's 10 below zero, and it it can become uh Yeah, and then also you're probably getting all the dirtiest runs too, because I mean my mom always told me nothing good happens after 10 p.m. I don't know if that rule still holds true or not. I thought it was after midnight, but so you're seeing all that. Your mom lied to you.
SPEAKER_04:Everybody else is at midnight.
SPEAKER_03:But apparently you're in the 10. Yeah, be home at 10. You hear me? Uh but yeah, you're seeing all the nasty stuff, like the sun goes down and then the dirt bags come out. So you're getting a lot of runs, I'm assuming. Yeah, and you know, obviously.
SPEAKER_04:During the FTO period, oh yeah, getting a taste of what you're about to dabble with and when you jump every run. So when you're an FTO, like you're overwhelmed. Like they make you take every run. Oh, yeah. Intentionally. They basically bury in reports, they want to see everything that you can see. So, you know, come the end of your shifts, you may have six reports you still got to do before you can go out.
SPEAKER_03:Well, can you walk me through that as simply as possible? What is a report even? I mean, I know like if you shoot a bad guy, a lot of shit has to happen. Obviously, you know, I mean you just Like That's a little different than taking an accident report. But like if you arrest somebody or if you pull somebody over and issue a ticket, what is like your average report? How long does that take you? Um What is that process even like? You just say like person name, infraction, actions taken. Yeah, tickets pretty simple. Especially now it's kind of all through a computer.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So they can scan your license, it brings up all your stuff. You know, you type in with the infraction or whatever it is, and they're on their way. Yeah. Uh for an actual PC arrest, I mean you're looking probably a couple hours, depending. You know, not that's without evidence, right? So if you pull a guy over and he's got a quarter pound of weed or you know, or final or something, now you gotta do you gotta test stuff, you gotta put in evidence, you gotta it's I mean, you could be taken off the road for five, six hours, and that's nothing to do to do one or something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and it has to happen right now if you're arresting somebody. So you're you're off the road now. You're gone. Um damn, dude. I never really thought about it that way. It's crazy. I thought you could just slap the cuffs on him and be like, all right, jail, take him and get back on the road.
SPEAKER_02:I wish. So what was it like when you get in that car the first time alone? You know, no supervisor.
SPEAKER_04:It was uh and I'll never forget that it was, you know, the first time that I did the ride-along and he went code three, which is lights and sirens. Yeah. The first day I was on Motor Patrol Um and they sent out a hot run. I don't remember it was uh a burglary or something, and I hit those sirens, it was like, oh shit. What do I know what to do now? Now it hit me. Yeah, now it hit me like, bro, there's nobody to look over, you know, in the pastor's seat now and say, what should I do? Uh so it was kind of yeah, it was diving in with both feet. It was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:So then uh I know like uh we talked uh with several law enforcement guys, and normally like they do like four or five years and then they kind of look to see what the options are next in that time. Um before we get to like that what what step you took next, do you have like a story from those first early years that's like just a fun story that you like to tell or arresting a guy covered in poop?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, no, no. Name was Fingers. Derek Tegers. I hope you dream about him tonight.
SPEAKER_03:If you see him on the street, you're dude, bro. We're leaving him alone. Just let him do it. Don't touch him.
SPEAKER_04:Don't touch him. Yeah, no. You got a crazy story? I don't know that there's any crazy stories like that early part of my career that I remember it was just like um no run was ever the same. You know, you can't you kind of prepare for certain things, but every run's different, you know. And I really learned that you're dealing with people on their worst day of their life mostly, even if you're arresting them or nobody likes being. Nobody well that or you know, going to somebody's home, tell them that you know their their kid was killed in a car wreck, or going to domestic violence, or whatever. I mean, it was just like we talked about initially, Brian, it's just like I'm sitting in my car, I'm gonna eat my lunch, and I'm chill, and then the next minute I'm going to a shots fired. So it's like a constant up down, up down.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's it's uh your body really doesn't know how to where to kind of fall in there and and kind of did you learn any like early coping mechanisms to help turn that light switch off, like when you when you do get home, because like that's the one thing that I think I've mentioned every time we have a law enforcement officer on and Brian's in here, and it was like, you know, like when Brian was in Afghanistan, like when you come home, like you're in a different environment. It's you know, there is that separation, but for like a law officer, like when you come home, like you're still in that same environment. You still know that hey, these calls are going out even when I'm off the clock.
SPEAKER_04:Like, yeah, it's uh and I think probably we'll get into that, but it was definitely um I learned later in my career that I don't know if there's really an on-off switch. Um like I never want my switch to go off, right? But I've learned it's more of a dimmer switch now. Like I know when to turn it up and when to turn it down. And I wish I would have kind of learned that earlier in my career, especially for my family's sake, because it is, it's hard to you're going through that all day and you're up and down, you're up and down, everything. You know, every run you go to pretty much they hate you, right? Yeah. So it's it's hard when you get home to really just shut that off. Um and it definitely impacts first responders in a in a very big way.
SPEAKER_02:Early years of being a cop, is did you meet your wife in that window? I did. I did. Um Did that change the game for you? Of like, hey, I when I go out on patrol, you know, I got something at home for me versus like not having Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_04:Really? No, I was still uh just all about the job, all about that life. Uh you know, and then I I started chasing that adrenaline, chasing that, I mean, that high, right?
SPEAKER_02:And you only know if you know it's uh it's it's something once you get it, you you can't replicate it anywhere else. And chasing that high is probably at the end of that four or five years where you were like, all right, w where where do I go from here? I want to do more. What's next? Yeah. What's what's the next jump up in adrenaline?
SPEAKER_04:What was it for you? Yeah, so um canine. I was always interested in canines, you know. Anytime we go to like a burglary or something, you know, we call for a dog, they search the house. Um or you know, track a guy and find him after he just robbed somebody or hurt somebody. I was like, that that's what I want to do. Um, you know, they're the typically in law enforcement, they're probably the the the one that gets the call for all the serious runs. I mean, canine are going to all the hot runs, all the burglars, all the shootings, um all the good stuff.
SPEAKER_02:What's that pro like do you so like uh do you get to pick your dog? Like what's the do you have to go there and train with your dog? Does your dog come pre-trained? Like there's a it's a lot, man.
SPEAKER_04:Um so I had to put in for the process. I applied to be a canine handler. We had an opening at the time, got picked for that. Thankfully. Um we had a guy here in town that actually started um the Evansville Police Canine um unit way back in the days. Uh so at the time, the sheriff's office, EPD, everybody was getting their dogs from him. Um so basically the sheriff at the time would email this guy and say, Hey, I've picked a handler, I'm gonna send him to you. Uh, you would go talk to this guy, get to know him a little bit, and then he would select your dog for you based off what he thought would be a good match, right?
SPEAKER_03:Does he have to watch you operate or like or is it just like meeting you, talking to you, shaking your hand, and reading your persona? I think it's just your persona, you know, are you aggressive dude?
SPEAKER_04:Are you high energy, low energy? Yeah, you are you gonna be a guy that just kind of sits in the car and only responds around? Are you a guy that's gonna kick doors?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, because dogs have personalities too, man. And if you can he had a really big gift of understanding, hey, this dog would be a good fit for you. Um maybe a dog whisperer kind of kind of vibe. He definitely nice, he he produced some really good dogs. So got selected for that. Um went through so our dogs, he would get them over from Czech Republic, and typically the dogs would train over there, you know, to probably a year, year and a half. Um you had to learn some like off-Russian dialect to for the commands. Well, no, um, actually they're all in German. So when they came over, um I learned Southern Indiana German, right? So it's uh little slang, you know, pocking, you know, it's like, what is that? Like German river speak, yeah. River people German. Yeah, and usually followed by some sort of profanity. That's kind of what the dogs knew seriously. Yeah. Um so I went through uh, you know, got my dog, um, gave him to me. His name was Bosco, it was my first dog. Um, went through basically a six-week course with him uh every day, probably 12 hours out there learning, you know, how the dogs work, learning how to to um to see what they're doing. You know, you have to understand if a dog comes heads comes up on a track what he's doing, right? If we missed a turn, or you know, we had a so my first dog was a dual-purpose dog, which means uh he was apprehension and he was narcotics. So we could we could do all the nice dude. Yeah, so apprehension. So we tracked, we did building searches, um, we did like all the the common street drugs, marijuana, cocaine, marijuana, or mar marijuana, and methamphetabine. Um, so there's a lot to learn in that six weeks, man. Um and then once you get out of the the canine academy, you train as a unit every every two weeks for ARC.
SPEAKER_02:Does the dog have like a different tell for each one like of the drugs? A different tell? Yeah, like so like if it's like marijuana, does it like point one leg and if it's meth, it like points a different nose? Hot like this is hot.
SPEAKER_04:So my when I went through, they were um aggressive alert, which means our dog would scratch, which the drug dealers hated it. I loved it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because they tear up the inside their car, they're everything to scratch it.
SPEAKER_04:You know, get a pretty little Mercedes with some with some you know cocaine or something, and the dog goes around and he's like, hey dad, here is he would just scratch the hell out of the pan.
SPEAKER_03:That's French Italian leather ass. I mean, like, well, that's cocaine. That car's mine now. Cough it up, dude. Oh, we also uh so you know we bl uh bleep out all the names of drugs on our show because we just so all this is gonna get edited out. Not that you care. Not edited but bleeped, yeah. Bleeped out. Okay. Um but that being said, uh, we're big proponents of uh the canine species here on the Days Grim. We both actually all three of us love dogs. Um, and I don't ever cry, but I do want to mention this. I never cry. I got a preface with that, right? But do you ever watch those videos of like a canine's uh there's like a code for it when you're calling off, signing off the radio for the last time? Do you ever watch those?
SPEAKER_04:So I have my last dog's final call out of service. It's on my phone, and I listened to it. Actually, I sent it. It fucks you up, bro. Yeah, it fucks you up. I ball, I ball like a baby.
SPEAKER_03:And those dogs get to come home with you, right?
SPEAKER_04:Like so they're part of the family, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's uh so that's standard, like they offer you the dog before they like adopt it out or whatever.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we pretty much work our dog a whole career. Like my dog, my first dog was 10 uh when I retired him. Um and he was having some issues. Damn. Um, so I had I basically retired him, and then the next week I had to put him down. Bosco? Yeah, poor bastard.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's uh but ten years, that's a good run. He's a legend here in Evansville, man.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good career, dude. He is a legend. Um, and so like you and Bosco, like, you got any cool stories from like that?
SPEAKER_04:I'm not sure if they're appropriate for this. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Somebody's penis got bit. I think that's what that equates like. I think his final stats, so he had 102 apprehensions, like physical bites, which is unheard of. Wild. Yeah, he uh seized over 300,000 in narcotics money, right? Cash that we took. Um, and God knows how many tracks and fines, but 103 street bites is like and that really up 20. How dumb do you gotta be to run from a dog? You know what? Like, dude, I had uh speaking of that, this is this is a really good dumb guy story. So we had a guy that was robbing gas stations. Uh he robbed like three within 24 hours, went in, held him at gunpoint, did all that. So we were able to find where he was at, and uh we had him in 24 hours and go sit down. Green, man.
SPEAKER_02:Greed. He's like, I got a system now, you know what I mean? Go on, sorry, sir.
SPEAKER_04:So we uh we were able to kind of locate him and locked him down inside of an apartment. And uh typically Kadine stands out back while the guys at front try to negotiate, hey, who's in here or whatever, and then we would go in and search, right? But obviously we stay out back in case the bandit wants to run out the back. So I'm standing out back, probably literally ten yards from the back door. The door opens, the guy comes out, and at the time I had Bosco, and he was probably 105 pounds. I mean, he was a moose, and he's obviously barking, uh slobber all over his teeth. I mean, he he was He's ready. You wouldn't uh the normal person would look at him and be like, Hey, I shouldn't do this. Um but he he looked at me and I said, dude, get on the ground, and he took off running. And he's probably 10 yards from me. Is that him? Yeah, the second the first picture there with me and a kit. That's him. The big picture, that's Bosco. Both of the both those first two top left there.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, look at this stud. He is a just a freak. Man-eating machine. Just a freak. Uh I don't want to cut you off from your story, but thank you for pulling that picture up, Lex. Dang. Yeah, he's uh he's a stud.
SPEAKER_04:Um that was right after he had surgery, so I literally put him down probably three days after that.
SPEAKER_03:They got him shaved up. Yeah, he was that's shitty, man. He was a machine. Sorry, yeah, we like to give people PTSD during our interviews. Uh it's actually a prime joy of mine. Uh but anyway, you were saying you're hanging out out back. He's he's ready to go. Bosco's on the pre-workout, ready. Yeah, he's jacking. He's gotta go on. He got into the drug paraphernalia, maybe. We don't know. His dick's hard. Red Rocket's out. He's ready, bro.
SPEAKER_04:Red Rocket out, nigga. And uh, yeah, so the guy's probably 10 yards away from me, and he looks at me, and he looks at Bosco and he takes off running like in an open parking lot. And I'm like, what? What what? Bro, are you sure? Okay. So uh he gets he gets probably give him a good 15 yard. Let's make it a little fair. Yeah, I gave him about 15, 20 yards, and I cut him loose. I'm like, get him, buddy. And then uh he hit him like Brian or Lacker. Man, it was like a linebacker. I mean, he's he was probably at that time about 100 pounds and ran about 35 miles an hour. So you can imagine.
SPEAKER_03:100 pounds at 30 miles an hour. It's like a truck, dude. Yeah. And then there's some teeth coming at you, too. Yeah, he uh he went to surgery um after that. Poor guy. I mean, I'm talking about Bosco. That's a hell of a hit. You know what I mean? He I hope he's okay. Uh yeah, he was in his that dude sounds like a turd, though. He was so you get the high off of canine, right? You do that for how long?
SPEAKER_04:Uh so I worked him for eight years, nine years, um, probably nine years. Uh and at the time, like probably second year into being a canine, um, I started working with U.S. Marshals quite a bit. I was still on patrol. Uh, but then when they would have a guy hiding in a house, like Bosco was known, like he's gonna find you and you're gonna pay the price. Yeah. Um, so he built a reputation for himself. So they started calling when they had a bandit hiding or took off running. So I started working with them a little bit, and then after probably a year of that, I was actually asked to be on the U.S. Marshall's Task Force. Damn. Um, so that's when Bosco's bites drastically increased.
SPEAKER_03:Now, if I'm not mistaken, this and I could be mistaken, but I only know this from a brief conversation we had in your office. But this is around the timeline that you ram a very significant vehicle into a ditch, right? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04:That was uh that was probably only about three years ago. Yeah, this was early.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that was only three years? Okay. Yeah, the yeah. I do want to talk about that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Uh, but anyway, so so you did the canine for a total of how long? He said eight to nine years, and then the first dog. Yeah, and then because I got a second dog. What uh two dogs. Um okay. So a total of how long in the canine? That's what I'm trying to get at. You did eight, nine years with the first dog, got a second dog, how long? Probably thirteen or fourteen years of canine. Then you go do you're kind of simultaneously doing that in U.S. Marshalls at the same time, then you go U.S. Marshall full-time, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, so um essentially, so a lot of people get confused how it works. So I was with the sheriff's office my entire career. But probably in 2000 10-ish, around there is when I got assigned to the task force. So basically, you're just appropriated over to the federal task force. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03:So you're sworn in the workhaw guy for them. You're like their tag-along. You're their rep between.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so but you work with them full time. Like, that's all I did. I didn't do patrol anymore. All we did is serve. How sweet was that, dude? Best job in the entire world.
SPEAKER_03:What the all we did was serve high risk warrants all day, every day. Oh my. And then did you ever have to like carry bodies around? Because isn't that what the Marshalls do too? They like transport prisoners. Well, they got a transport team for that, but we didn't do that.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, we did some uh But you're just serving warrants. We did some protection stuff uh one time when um they were flying one of Bin Laden's main guys through here. He was going out to Colorado and they stopped at the airport, so we got to hang out with him a little bit. Damn. We got to do some some of that stuff. But uh dab up a terrorist.
SPEAKER_03:You're like, hey, what's up, homie? What's up? You're going down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to meet Bosco? You want to see my puppy? Yeah. They're terrified of that.
SPEAKER_04:But no, so we were uh we were what we call the Great Lakes Task Force, which is out of Chicago. So one thing we do was serve warrants. That's that's all we did. High risk warrants.
SPEAKER_03:So like people that are flight risks, people that are violent, uh past history.
SPEAKER_02:Was there like more training when you become a U.S. Marshal? Like when you make that next step up? So you had to basically go back to school for a little while.
SPEAKER_04:Well, we just constant training. You know, we they would send us to train with their special operations group quite a bit. Uh and unfortunately, still at the sheriff's office, I was our tactics instructor, so I got to go to a lot of different schools and get a lot of a lot of good training from, you know, just other cops, tier one guys, whatever it looked like, just everything from hostage rescue to high risk warrants, whatever. So um had a lot of good opportunities to train people a lot better than me.
SPEAKER_03:Did you stay there like the entirety of your career or was there another step after this?
SPEAKER_04:No, so I got signed um after I put Bosco down, I was adamant I didn't want another dog just because of the the pain. It was horrible. Brutal. Uh and at the time my sheriff, he was a very big canine guy, and and sees the success. I mean, canines are probably one of the best tools in law enforcement, man. It's it's uh Bosco, I uh there's probably three incidents I can say he literally saved my life. I mean, it they're unbelievable tools. Um but being in that position, he was like, No, you're getting another dog. So eventually I uh probably a month after we put Bosco down, I was sent to get another dog and I was very hesitant, but uh ended up loving him, you know, different, but just as much.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, dogs definitely have personalities, and I'm sure you being as well trained as you were, you could see that personality. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So my first dog, he was he was all shepherd. Uh, and then my second dog, Kane, that I still have now, retired with me. He's part Mal, part shepherd, so he's got that crazy mal in him that's like Oh, Malmois. Yeah, it's like, bro, who he looks at you kind of sideways.
SPEAKER_03:Those are scary creatures. The Malmois, like the males get up to like 70 pounds, but they're like they can climb a three-story building. It's fucking wild.
SPEAKER_04:The way he could jump through a window of a car, or they're just so athletic. But he was also he was a little more hard-headed. Yeah, uh-huh. Didn't like to let go. Uh oh, like once he got the uh tackle or whatever. And once he grabbed on you, it was harder. Yeah, yeah. That sucks for that guy, but we we had some it was it was frustrating because Bosco was kind of like um, I don't know, he was like an all-star, right? More disciplined, he just knew when I said something happened, and then I get this dude, and I'm like, what did I do? Like, what did I sign up for? I went from an NFL to a cub football player, and I was like, what did I do? What did I do?
SPEAKER_03:But also with teeth like Cujo, uh, this thing is terrifying. Um so Kane stays with you through the U.S.
SPEAKER_02:Marshall program and everything like that. Yeah, he worked with me until the day I retired. So you retired from U.S. Marshals?
SPEAKER_04:I retired well from the sheriff's office, but that removed me from the task force as well.
SPEAKER_02:Gotcha. Well, didn't you do some stuff with Evan Till Swat?
SPEAKER_04:Uh just train with them. And we we we use those guys quite a bit. If like we'd have a barricade or something like that when we were in town. So we we trained a lot with those.
SPEAKER_02:Did you get to go to that city here in Indiana that has like a fake train, fake bank, they flood half of it and everything like that? What's that experience like? Because that's crazy.
SPEAKER_04:From Scatatuck, you ever been to Misscatatucker?
SPEAKER_03:No, I've I'm familiar because we've brought it up on the podcast before. I believe I've seen pictures. It's like a 40-acre plot, 50-acre plot, and it's all urbanized and like there's buildings and sidewalks. Buildings that can flood the whole city. I mean, you can do any kind of ops training there. It's pretty awesome. Familiar, I've never been there though. Where's it at? Scat would you call it? It's um Scatchowa. What'd you call it? Muscatuk. Scatatuck.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's up north. It's probably a couple hours from here. Uh, okay, okay. But it's a great training. But yeah, we got to do stuff up there. Then we went to Chicago a lot and trained, like I said, with their it's their special operations group uh the Marshalls have, which basically is kind of like their tier one guys. Yeah, it's like the murder capital of the you can have Chicago, I don't want any part of it.
SPEAKER_03:I think Illinois feels the same way. Well, did you see that?
SPEAKER_02:Do you see that newest map about certain Illinois counties want to merge into Indiana? Do you blame them? I I don't open on the southern half.
SPEAKER_03:I'd I'll adopt them. Get them. We gotta do something by that state. That state is a shit host. It's insane. Um no, it's funny. So I do want to talk about operators though. I we did the we were talking the ruck and rosary. That just happened yesterday, and I was like, golly, guy's name's Corey. Corey from the Ruck. Do you know who I'm talking about? Older gentleman who led the ruck. Uh Corey, if you see this, dude, shout out to you. I don't know why I don't remember your last name right now. I think he was SWAT or he worked with SWAT. He worked worked with Sig for a bunch of years, but I think he was SWAT before that. Um Corey Mock. Yeah, do you know him?
SPEAKER_04:Know him real well.
SPEAKER_03:Salt and pepper gentleman. We did some. Was he SWAT?
SPEAKER_04:He was no, he's ISP SWAT.
SPEAKER_03:He was actually one of my ISP. That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_04:He was one of my instructors for Web.
SPEAKER_03:So I was talking in now that so you've worked with a ton of operators. I want to have this conversation. Just a quick side note that a lot of people don't think about. And I talked with him about it during the Ruck and Rosary. I'm glad that we're talking about now. But uh he's telling me about how all the opposite operators he worked with, and I was like, telling me all the places he's been to, and then I was like, you know, did you ever you ever work with a you know a an outfit or a specific operator maybe that just they thought they were all high speed, low drag, and then really they're just a turd, you know what I mean? Like they're just not what you know what I mean, those kind of guys. And he was like, Oh yeah, all the time. And he gave me this one story from a guy from Chicago. He was like, I met this one guy, and this is when he was a SIG salesman, and this operator is talking to him about this platform that he's demoing or whatever. And the operator's like, hey man, he just got done shooting the weapon, puts it on the counter, he talks to our friend Corey, he's like, Hey brother, you do uh I think you lost your zero on this SIG. It's all it's all fucked up. Big tall jack dude, it's all fucked up. Corey's like, Well man, I I haven't dropped it. And he knew he was talking shit now. And he was like, Well, I'm just gonna embarrass this guy in front of like 50 people. And he was like, Well, here, I'll give it a run. And he goes to a 15 meter and just tink, tink, ting, ting, tink, tink, tink, tink, tink, tink, tink, ting, tink, dumps 15 rounds, all tinks, and he was like, Looks good to me, and put it back on the table. And this dude gets roasted by his teammates for like I imagine he probably retired shortly after this. Uh, but did you do you have anything like that where you met like a guy that's just like all speed, no drag, and then you you talk to him and you're like, oh no, you're actually you're actually a turd.
SPEAKER_04:A lot. A lot, yeah. So we would, you know, obviously with our position, we would go out to all these different areas. I mean, Evansville kept us pretty busy, but we would go to surrounding towns and that kind of stuff, and like, oh, well, yeah, we we have a SWAT team. I'm like, okay, is it is it a real SWAT team? Where is it? We got shirts that say SWAT team. Like, what is it here? So we did come across that, but I I want to circle back real quick about Corey. Such a good dude, by the way. Oh, dude, he is Corey. Thank you so much. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he is probably one of the best shooters I've ever seen in my life. Big sick guy, yeah, yeah. I don't care what you could give him a red rider and he'll outshoot you. Really? I mean, he is an unbelievable shooter, unbelievable operator. When we did some stuff in real life together, he is nice as fucking guy, too. Well, he's he's a real deal, right? He don't squirt anything. He's he's solid as they come. Yeah, I think they're all right.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so yeah, big shoots to uh to Corey. I don't remember his last name. Mock. Corey Mock. Mock, okay. Corey Mock, I'll have to remember that. Um, great dude. So yeah, it's just funny because people think like regular civilians think about SWAT and they think about dudes with like quad NVGs and they're like kicking indoors and they're all high speed, but like there are I I don't know, it's like I don't know, there's some places that could use some work. Uh I think in Ohio specifically, but here nor there.
SPEAKER_04:We uh it it's I went to probably first, let me just say this EPD ISP squared away SWAT teams. Like we're we are in a good position here with with our teams. Like these dudes train, they know what they're doing, they're solid, they're professional. Uh but I went to an FBI SWAT school probably three or four years ago, and they're bringing in people from all over the place. And uh I won't mention any names, but this one town that had a SWAT team. Yeah, uh apparently their protocol is when they were pushing a room, all the safety selectors come off the rifles. So like we're going to this room here, click, click, click, click, click, click. And everybody's like, What is what is this? What's happening? And anybody that knows knows, they're like, What are you doing? Like, we're not shooting anything. What are you doing? Settle down, right? So the instructor's like, What am I witnessing here, guys? What and they're like, Well, you know, we gotta be ready for the threat. He said, That should be all one movement. Like, we don't turn the safety selector off until we're ready to shoot. Then we shoot, then it comes right back on. There's a reason it's in a convenient place, correct, right? So we're like, bro, like, okay. So the week goes on, day three, these cats are still doing it. Every room, so we're Mishmash, right? They put in different guys, different teams. So then he starts putting us all together, and we come into a room and it's just like click, click, click, and I'm like, oh my God. Finally, the instructor said, That's it. Every click I hear, 30 burpees. Like, bro, like we're gonna meet after class if you start making me do burpees. We did one scenario, he counted 30 safety selector clicks. Ah, sucker. And this is summertime. Oh, yeah, you're gonna die. We're outside, full kit, yeah, full everything. You're done. Yeah. But that was their uh that was their thing. But I will tell it myself too. Um a few times I was in a team lead position, you know. Uh I never realized I did it ever. Um, but you know, coming up on point and I'm giving directions to the team, not realizing I'm using my right hand, right? So I'm holding the rifle and I'm like, push right, push right. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, why are you using your trigger hand to give? And I'm like, I didn't know it was, right? I never knew right. I was just like, push right, hold left. And uh he's like, damn it, Bishop, don't do it again. I'm like, yes, sir. The next day, duct tape my hand to my rifle all day long. Dude, eating lunch with my rifle tape, duct tape, all day. I that hand never moved that that uh guard again. Learn almost exactly the same way, brother. Oh, it was I was embarrassed.
SPEAKER_03:I was extremely embarrassed. A lot of people don't know when you're clearing a room, you never like uh you don't want to cross your feet or get them too far apart from one another. Right. And my issue was I would like wide step it out and then I'd cross them every now and then. But my issue was like taking wide strides, so like I would tape or not tape, but I would tie laces to my ankles and like keep them close. Yeah, keep it shoulder width. So I knew exactly where to stop as I'm like shuffling through this room, right? So but just the small and all those small things add up, brother. And if you don't know, you know. You probably never knew you did that, right? Yeah, no, you have no idea. And they keep you alive, yeah. They keep you on your feet, they keep your hand in the trigger well.
SPEAKER_02:Like so are a lot of these classes like recorded, and then like it's like a football team, like they you watch playbacks, and like, hey, so and so did this here, that's not kosher.
SPEAKER_04:What about some of the ones we did, like some of the schools, but that one, you know, if we go into like a live shoot house or something, they would just follow us around, they record a little bit just so you could see what you did.
SPEAKER_02:But um And some of those rounds from the live shoot house, they they hurt because they're still sim rounds, I believe. Yeah, I don't know about a live shoot house rounds.
SPEAKER_04:I've never taken any of those, thank God. But the I don't know that one part of that one, Thomas. Yeah, that's a 308 one time, it's not a great note too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, only the fit survived, right? Whatever, bro. That's the best, make it out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Uh but yeah, some of the sims, I mean, depending on what you're running or what you're doing. Um, you know, we typically, in especially in law enforcement, we would run training bolts in our ARs, right? And those rounds are hot. I mean, they're coming out of that rifle hot. Just because the bolt that you're putting in? Yeah, so they're actually shooting like two, two, three-size rounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're coming out hot. And uh I've been I've been popped in the nose a few times.
SPEAKER_03:What's the FPS on something like that? Do you even know a number for something like that? They just hurt pain? Hurt. Yeah, how fast they come out, fat hurt pain. Hurt fast. Pain. Hurt fast. Pain quick, bleed. You will bleed.
SPEAKER_02:Uh so like uh as you're wrapping up toward your law enforcement career, like, and you still have business ambitions, I guess, that never really truly went away. I mean, uh, and always wanted to be better. So, like, what leads you now to like opening lawman or like putting you in that position to start with.
SPEAKER_03:What's that gap look like from retirement to us sitting in here and recording this podcast? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So uh, you know, I've kind of decided to do this probably the last year and a half of my career, you know. And and a lot of people ask, like, why did I build this place? Um, and it's more than just a state-of-the-art training facility. Um, in my position, I feel like I had a kind of a front row seat to watch this country just kind of like, how the hell do we end up here? Like, really, like, how did this happen, man? Took a dump. Uh, it did. And uh, in my opinion, only my opinion, it's we've lost the little things. We lost the yes, sir, yes, ma'am. You know, just just gratitude for each other, you know, holding the door, right? Just the little things. And, you know, if if I say Merry Christmas, that's that's on me. Like that, you're not gonna tell me if I can say that or not say that, right? So I wanted to build a place like we still buy our military, we still vire law enforcement, each other, and we can agree to disagree, like we can have a conversation over a cup of coffee in my retail, or we can go over the lounge and have a bourbon and and hash it out. So and the self-pouring beer wall, pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03:I people enjoy that. But yeah, that's the great part about living in this, you know, what really was once one of the greatest nations, if not the greatest nation on earth, was that you could disagree with people. Right. And now it's like, I don't know, it's tumultuous now. It's social media, bro. Yeah, and the and just the media in general, I think they want us to hate each other. Absolutely. I'm I'm convinced I'm a big conspiracy theory guy. Something big's happening, and they just want us to hate each other so much and believe in UFO so much, and they're like sneaking shit under a table somewhere. Haven't figured it out yet, but I'm watching a lot of YouTube and I'm getting into it. Uh so come back next week, I'll have more information. Awesome. Um, but yeah, but like you're a bummer.
SPEAKER_02:It's got everything the community would need. You know what I mean? Like Tat school readiness, but then also like you got that the the bourbon area and the restaurant to like grab a meal, cool off, like you know, meet and like you got the kids' playground, you got several events, like you do karaoke every week, you got like uh cool cars that come in at one night a week. Like I think like you've got something for everybody.
SPEAKER_03:The cafe's amazing, by the way. Um, I did not know, like a lot of people that probably haven't been here until I came here for that event, that there was a restaurant here. Amazing restaurant, by the way. And it's open to the public.
SPEAKER_04:I think that's our biggest hurdle here is people think you gotta be a cop or military or only members. And it's not like everybody's welcome here, you know. We do have memberships, but they get certain benefits to things and access. But our entire club is open to the public. It's not, you know, the goal of this, you know, the training side especially is, you know, I we want to be able to teach people real life skill sets. You know, people ask me all the time about, hey, can you make me a good shooter? I'm like, yeah, we can.
SPEAKER_03:But that what does that do?
SPEAKER_04:What does that do, right? Stress changes everything. I want to make you a thinker, right? I don't care if you can shoot a one-ho drill from 15 yards, it doesn't matter in the real world.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so teaching them to think through that stress and understand chaos, and then even the law with it, like what's it look like in your home, what's it look like in the parking lot, the castle doctrine, the stand your ground, like these are all things that you make the wrong decision change the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's a really uh that's a unique way to look at it. Like, I know a lot of buddies of mine that are poor shooters, and then a lot of buddies of mine that are good shooters, but like when you put it that way, it's like, you know, if it takes me one round to hit this bad guy, but it takes you five, you know, you might think that I'm in the better scenario. But if I'm dumber than a fucking box of rocks and this guy is a whiz kid, those five rounds, I he might be in a better scenario. Because when the shit hits a fan, you know, this puzzle he put together faster than I did.
SPEAKER_04:I've seen it many times, like on the range, guys that can just they can shoot like crazy, right? Yeah. But I seen them in the middle of a scene, like shut down. They can't think through the problem, man.
SPEAKER_03:And then exhaustion, too, is another thing. A lot of people don't talk about or think about, like a lot of people just want to be make me a good shooter, make me a good shooter. But like um, I I don't know the proper term for it, but like the courses that you can do, like the stress shoots. We did them in the military, but like go put your heavy clothes on, go put a kit on, and then we're gonna do some calisthenics, and we're gonna get your heart rate up to 90, 110. We're gonna get you up there, get your blood pumping. Now go shoot. Right. Like right now, go go do everything I just taught you. I'm tired, I can't control my breathing. That's the point. Go do it. Like, that's another thing a lot of people don't do or even really think about because when the shit hits the fan, even though you're at home, your heart rate immediately is gonna jump from 70 to 90, right? Just immediately. And you're getting all these chemicals dumping into your brain. It's uh yeah, so I think it's important what you do. Like that shoot house that you did for October was fucking sick. Do you have the date for November yet? Uh we know anything about the November uh training.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think it's the 20. We usually do the last Thursday of the month, but Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_02:What if the changes that event or classes tab? Yeah, so if you go to Lexi, can we check out events?
SPEAKER_03:If you go to uh or would it be Classes? Oh, go to classes, sorry. Training calendar. Yeah, let's go there. Give this dude a pain. Damn, y'all are busy. Holy shit, boy. Golly.
SPEAKER_04:He said October's past, so can we go to November? Just click over to the top left to the next right there. Yeah, that boy. So if you go down to I think it's the 20, was it the 20? Go down one more. Past the 20th. Oh, it's the 20th. Because Thanksgiving's the 27th. So that it's called problem solving there. It's from 5 30 to 7 30.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, nice. And you haven't come up with that scenario yet, right? But you're thinking vehicle maybe.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, depending on the weather. We're either looking at if it's cold. Obviously, I I'm past all those days training outside in the cold weather and elements. I still fuck with it. Uh I like to be in pain.
SPEAKER_01:But they can wait around and somebody will drive a building into a car or a car drive building. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we have a peephole situation on our hands here, dude.
SPEAKER_04:We probably do um probably some sort of active shooter thing. Okay. You know, we do we did some in the past, like, hey, you're eating at a restaurant with your family, and we'll throw a bunch of different scenarios in there. It's so huge, dude. It is. It's uh it's very eye-opening for people.
SPEAKER_03:What do you do? Uh I mean, obviously we were talking about like the stress drills, like but you and I are familiar with that, but how do you do you is there anything that lawman offers that could like curtail that to like an average, you know, civy? I guess like a stress shoot type of course or class, or do you guys do anything like that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, honestly, I think uh the reality-based stuff we do is is the best, man, because we give like this stuff that we're doing the problem solving, yeah, because it's they know they could get shot, right? Yeah, and it just creates even in scenarios and it's self-induced stress, these guys go into these houses and they think that we're just gonna have somebody in there that's gonna light them up, and we don't have anybody in there, right? But we're teaching them properties to use their light, you know, understand the priority, and that's the biggest thing is like, you know, one of the biggest takeaways from last week's class was what's the priority, right? So it's let's say it's me, my wife, my two kids are upstairs in my home. Yeah, it's 2 30 in the morning. I just heard somebody come in downstairs. I'm like, what are you gonna do? Like, well, I'm gonna go down there and okay, so what's your priority? What is most important to you? Well, my wife and my kids. Okay, so why are you leaving that to go downstairs to find this bandit that let him steal what he wants to steal? Let's get them in a position where I can protect them, right? And and and create like a hardened spot where he's like, like a vantage point atop the stairwell. Right, where I can see everything. I I'm the last line of defense for my family. If I go down there and try to find this bandit, he gets and I'm having an off day, right? He sneaks me, or there's three of them. Yeah. Now my family's completely vulnerable upstairs. So under people are like, man, I never thought about that, right? But it's prioritizing that, right? And then breaking it down by priority is how to solve those problems.
SPEAKER_03:You said something that clicked in my head too. You said how to use your light, and now I'm like flat having flashbacks to looking at the post because I liked it, I think. And I was scrolling through the pictures that you had posted, like five or six picks, and you were doing a lot of like light around the corner and like how to use the tack light on the on the uh handgun. My question is so I have a tack light on my handgun that I keep by my bedside, right? But every scenario I've ever run through my head in someone entering my home, I'm almost exclusively operating in the dark. Right. Why not? Why why should I use the tack light on my Glock instead of operating in the dark? I know my home better than anybody, is my thought. Right. You know what I mean? If I throw that light, if they have a firearm, I mean, now they know exactly where to shoot, essentially.
SPEAKER_04:So we don't we don't make sense because yeah, and we don't really teach people like we're not big proponents of searching with your handgun. Yeah. Right? Right. Especially if people don't have that training experience to target recognition and kind of like, oh shit, yeah, I just shot my kid. He's down here eating Doritos, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a real thing. Yeah, we'll we'll edit that out. Uh no, but it's it's a real thing. Yeah, it's a real possibility. People go downstairs and they're they're half asleep, it's two in the morning and they hear something, right? And they're searching because they got a weapon mount of light and they're using you know all the same stuff. I mean, we teach a lot of inhale light, you know, checking and doing stuff and then bringing up if we got to present it. Yeah. Um, but you know, no, and part of that class is how do we set our home up? You know, like do you set it up the same way every night? Like, do you know if you go downstairs or you look down the hallway, like I know that light's always on, or I know that table's always there, somebody's moved it, right? A quick recognition point for you to know something's off, something's not right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Or, you know, if if I come in my hallway every night, it's set up where you're not gonna see me, but I'm gonna see you, right? I'm not gonna backlight myself. Um, so again, just bringing these things to people's attention saying, Hey, what do you think about this? I've never thought about that. Well, that's the goal of the whole class is to make you think. Yeah. You know, I got phone calls the next day. It's like, dude, I never thought that's amazing. Like, now I'm gonna reset up my house. We're gonna, you know, what what gun do you use? Well, I'd I'd have full metal jack. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Like those rounds are gonna blow through drywall and your neighbor's drywall, and they're gonna keep going, right? Yeah, bro. Right. So there's a lot of considerations in home defense.
SPEAKER_02:And it's a sketchy thing. There we talked about it. Like, you don't want to clear your house with a shotgun, and then you know, if your kids' rooms to the back of it, and you're just and it depends, right? What ammo you got in there?
SPEAKER_04:You don't want to put slugs in there and start blowing halls, but you know, and it's and again, like, do you need to clear your home? Right? I mean, I I'm pretty comfortable with my skill set that I could probably go down and solve the problem, but do I need to? Because this dude's trying to steal, you know, dishes or whatever. You got TV, right? Take it, bro. Yeah, I'm gonna stay up here and defend what's mine. You come up here, you better know Jesus very well. Right, right. But other than that, like my wife's calling, like, we have a full plan for my home. Like, my kids know what they're doing, my wife knows what she's doing. If I'm not home, she knows what she's doing. Like, you got to have these things in place because chaos changes everything.
SPEAKER_02:What was it like having to sit down with your family and like teach them, you know, like hey, this is I think it was normal to them, man.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, they they saw the life that I lived. Um, you know, my wife seeing stuff on Evansville Watch or whatever, the some of the things that we were involved in. And I think it just be kind of unfortunate came there normal that we live in a world like my family lives in a world of just we're not paranoid, we're prepared.
SPEAKER_02:Well, especially like being in law enforcement and putting so many guys behind bars, you never know. Like, hey, is so and so out there, you know, his fingers out here looking to smear shit on my lot, you know, or dude, dirty fingers, dude.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, fangers, I hope you're out and free, brother, rather than your shit on somebody else. Um another fun fact, I want to have this question for Brian as well. That I I had another conversation with Corey. Him and I, dude, he's just such a great dude. He's great, and we had such a great talk. Um, but anyway, so uh we were talking about comfortability with a firearm. And more specifically, I feel like if you're a firearm owner, yes, 100%, you should be comfortable with your firearm. You should not own a firearm if you're not comfortable with it. That being said, the conversation we had was the thing that makes me like sick to my stomach is the videos, obviously, any of them, where law enforcement officers or military personnel are injured or killed. They have millions of these videos. I'm sure you've seen millions of these videos. Um what r those really make me sick. I hate watching them. Um, but interesting when you look at it from like a diagnosing the situation, what went wrong kind of situation. But uh more importantly, the videos that irk me worst is when it's from the chess cam and they are having to unholster their weapon, and when the individual, you know, draws their firearm, you can just tell they are not comfortable behind the sights of this firearm. Absolutely. I'm sure you've seen thousands of these videos as well. I see them all the time as well, and my algorithm's fucked up, by the way. Uh, but I see all these videos all the time. Nothing irks me more than that. So my question to you is what advice do you have for the law enforcement officer, military personnel, anybody that has a firearm in their line of duty that isn't a hundred and thirty thousand percent comfortable with that piece of metal in their hand? What is your advice to that person, operator, male, female, doesn't matter? What would you say to them?
SPEAKER_04:So I think uh from law enforcement side, one of the biggest things that I saw throughout my career is if the department wouldn't send guys to training, they weren't willing to pay for it on their own. Right? And what I don't follow. What do you mean? So like the department has so much mandated hours you have to do firearms, which is very little, right, per year. Right. Or you know, you may get some sort of CQB training once a year for four hours, whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04:Right? Not enough. We know that, right? You're not gonna solve problems doing that four hours a year. No, like you're not gonna be flu in it, you're not gonna understand like you know, how to work your dead space, angles, all these things that come into play. So my I guess my approach was always like hey, like this is about me and my family. You know, if I get better, I go home, right? So I would spend my own money to go to additional training that I couldn't get to go to because at the end of the day, it wasn't about the department, it was about me going home to see my wife and my kids. Fuck yeah, that's what it's all about. That is, man. And I think um I think people need to understand that like stress changes everything. Like if if you are not like if you can't reload your weapon as a you know, law enforcement or military with your eyes closed very quickly and get back in that gunfight, like it's gonna be a very bad day when it happens. I mean, you know, from my experience, some of the things I've been involved with, like I did things afterwards, I didn't even know I did it, right? It was just muscle memory. Like I had no idea I'd empty a mag and reloaded and emptied another mag. Like I had no idea that happened. Yeah, you black out. It was just there, it happened, right? It was just muscle memory. But if I never got those trainings and those reps, I would have shut down. You're overthinking, and then it's just overstimulation, right? And and that's what you know, I I know you guys are familiar with the Oodaloop. And the other night when I was teaching in the class, like these people that have never seen these situations before, they just get stuck, right? Because the brain says, I've never seen this before. Uh I went to a class one time, I'll give him a shout-out. His name's Steve Claggett. Um Steve Claggett. Steve Claggett, look him up. You remember the old the old show Dallas SWAT? Back in the day. It was real popular on TV. Dallas SWAT. Was this like a scripted show? No. It was Dallas SWAT team and they followed him on hits. I was a big uh um what was that one show? Claggett. What's C L A G G E T T, I think. Or if you type in Dallas SWAT TV show, it'll come out. Oh, I think he yeah, that might get us close. Do that. It'll pull it up. Yeah, that cat right there. So it was a very popular TV show back in the day, like when cops was real you know, famous and everything.
SPEAKER_03:I have two initial thoughts. That's him in the middle picture here. Yep. And on the left. Dude, look, I'm gonna say this. I mean no offense by this. Dude looks goofy as fuck. Second thought immediately that I had next was definitely has killed more people than I have toes. I feel like an operator. Legit, bro.
SPEAKER_04:It looks like somebody I want to know. Yeah, so this was this was probably early 90s, you know, when you're wearing those stupid helmets and uh, you know, before Team Wendy was a squat. Right, right. You're you're you're I remember my first kit was like I would look like the marshmallow man off you know, I couldn't even move. Yeah, you're all pillowed out. Couldn't move, I got stuff everywhere, couldn't do anything. Uh but I went to a school, uh, I think it was uh I don't know if it's hostage rescue school or an active shooter school. I went to him once and he broke it down for the stupid guys like me, and he said, he said, Bish, he said, if you want to grab something on your computer quickly, where do you put it? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, Your desktop. I said, Yeah, okay. He said, Why? I said, so I don't have to dig through all those files. Talking about gear manipulation, is that what we're talking about? No, no, we're just talking about our like so like if if I want to put a file on my computer about you know uh documents, right? I put on my desktop because I use if I gotta grab it, it's there. Yeah, our brain works the same way. Oh, I see. Right? So the more you do this training, you go through that, the more stuff you're putting on this desktop, right? So now you're in the middle of this chaotic situation, your brain says, Hey, I've seen this before, here's the solution, solve the problem. So you're not digging through all these files in the middle of that chaotic situation. And it kind of just stuck to me, you know, and I was just like, I gotta put more shit on my desktop. Like the more I gotta see, the more I gotta solve these problems. And now, I mean, you know, at the end of my career, like I was doing things, didn't even know it. Guns out, doing, you know, whatever that may be. But it's only because I put those things on my desktop. And if I can tell anybody about training, man, it's just you gotta see more and do more, and you gotta work through the stress. Like that's what that's what makes a difference of survival and not surviving.
SPEAKER_03:I was a uh I was a saw gunner in Afghanistan for a short while, as we've talked about the 249. Uh, and there's like video clips from my helmet cam of like moments where I'd have a malfunction, and you'd have to, you know, lift the feed tray, pull your head away, sweep out, and then break the chain, get it back in, uh, brass the grass, load it, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. Multiple times, like in the middle of a gunfight with little to no cover. There's like multiple clips of me like doing that, and I you have no right, and it's a process to like clear a 249 uh malfunction. Like, it's it's lengthy, it's but if it's well trained and it's seared into your memory, you do it, you don't even think of it. And then I watch the footage and I'm like, in my brain, I'm shooting this entire time. Right, I don't remember anything but pulling the trigger. You know what I mean? Yeah, I only remember looking in that direction and shooting at that guy. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's yeah, that's true, man. I never the desktop is a good analogy. Yeah, I've never heard that before. I like that analogy a lot. And I feel like you could use it with anything.
SPEAKER_04:You do, and that's why I was saying, like Thursday, putting these people, like, hey, yeah, you know, your wife's upstairs, your kids upstairs, you come home, the door's broken in, what are you gonna do? Right? Well, the priority at that time is the kids, like you should go in and find them, get to a spot, whatever. But they would go into the house and they would literally just freeze, right? So they're just stuck in that. Like they don't, they've never seen this before, they don't understand the answer.
SPEAKER_02:They're they're analyzing the situation, they're overwhelmed by the like, hey, this dude might be in my kitchen, this dude might be in my bathroom, this, there, you know, wherever. And then they would just walk in, they're like, Where do I start? And they freeze. Because they're going through all these loadings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a loading.
SPEAKER_03:So your answer, it sounds like to me, is like put more shit on your desktop. If you're uncomfortable behind a firearm, it's create more find ways. Yeah, find ways to make it more natural, right? Right?
SPEAKER_04:That's your and learn the right way. You know, we have a lot of people come here, I'm like, hey, have you ever shot before? Oh, yeah, shot with my cousin out in the backyard. Bro, that doesn't mean that you understand how to correctly shoot a firearm, you understand the fundamentals and what that looks like. Yeah. Because those are important, right? I mean, and we do a lot of fundamental stuff here because you have to understand how to shoot. But you know, if if I could teach anybody anything, it'd be how to be a thinker.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. I like that a lot. I I really liked that post that you put up again. Uh, I saw it on Facebook, and you can just look up uh Lawman Tactical on Facebook and you can see the post we're talking about, that huge house though. Uh a lot of great pictures. Were you just shooting those yourself?
SPEAKER_04:Uh I had a couple uh students that would take some here and there. Okay, no, my I had myself and one of my other instructors.
SPEAKER_03:Nice. I mean, they they turned out great though. It was dude, it looks like you guys had uh a hell of a time. It is kind of pissed that I missed out on that. I'm gonna have to wait for this November one. I'm excited to hear about it. It'll be fun. Um, so what's the what's the number one thing um I guess for the future that you're trying to push for Lawman Tactical? I guess um what's some you've achieved so much already by you know you had a location on the east side and that was overly successful, and then you moved from the east side to here to where we're at now on Lynch and uh 41. Uh the exact address is 220, I think. 4209. 4209. 4209 US Highway 41. US Highway 41. So you moved out here, huge accomplishment in itself, huge upscale. You're doing all this great shit, but what's you've already done so much. What's moving forward? What's that like next step for you? What's the next thing that's in your in your crosshairs?
SPEAKER_04:Um, so we still got some building to do here. You know, I I my biggest goal here is for people to understand the community that we are. You know, you don't have to be a firearms guru to come here. There's lots of other things. You know, we got a lot of members here that never even stepped into the range, right? Um, but they're in the lounge, they're doing the women's self-defense classes, they're just around other good people. Um, so not people not really being intimidated by, you know, sometimes I think the word tactical scares people like it's more than it is. Uh, but just getting the word out like what our community is, and it's you know, it's people are like, oh well, I'm a this this really happened. Well, I'm a Democrat, and I think I could come there. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like this is the this is why I created this place. Yeah. Like, absolutely not. Like that's the problem. That's the problem, like, right? You know, I mean that mind's we can sit down and have a cup of coffee and I can ask why or whatever, but it doesn't mean you're not welcome here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm not gonna make fun of you in public, dude. You know what I mean? That's a private one-on-one thing, dude.
SPEAKER_04:It's uh it's just such a big misconception, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So I almost forgot we have to ask about the the the ramming situation. Run me through this story again. We so there's a Netflix documentary about uh a female jailer who falls in love into a romantic relationship with a drug dealer. Murderer. Murderer, murderer, thank you. Uh, and then they skip town. This happens in Alabama. They skip town and she gets him, breaks them out, they skip town in a vehicle and start moving north. Yeah, and they were dumb. It took them two weeks just to make it to Evansville. Yeah, they were all over the place. So walk me through you you had a play in this, and and I wanna this is like very minimal. I know, but still, you probably don't think that much of it. But I think it's cool as shit that the story itself, so just kind of walk me through what happened.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I think it's big on the whole we were talking earlier about the jail situation, right? And how some of these guys are great manipulators, and that's what happened. You know, this lady worked at the sheriff's office there for 20 plus years, I think. She was towards retirement.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, and then, you know, Casey White, he was a hell of a manipulator. Uh, he was in there, I think, for for murder at the time or manslaughter or something, something pretty serious. We got extensive criminal history. Yeah. Um, but was able to to trick her on her that he loved her and you know, she was the one and all this, and uh you know, eventually to to the point where she she helped him escape. Yeah. Uh they went on the run and uh, you know, it was all over the news for probably a week or so. You know, we're all kind of watching and you know, what's going on with this is crazy, whatever. And you're at what point in your career at this time? Oh, this is towards the end. So you're still in? Yeah, well, yeah, I'm still working on the task force. I was actually building this out at the time. Um, you know, the day that this all kind of came to a head, I was actually on the back side of my building letting my dog go to the bathroom. Here at this location. At this location. This is good. I love this story so much. Yeah, it's uh it's crazy. So um, you know, we we started getting tips, you know, um, that they may be in the area and um, you know, within the last few days. And we are all to be honest, like, there's no way these are not still here, like it's been three. They're on up the road. So we kind of started looking into it, and you know, we start taking calls from all over. You know, we asked for tips and trying to funnel through what's real, what's not real, you know. Uh, when you ask for tips on something like that, you'd be like, such a pain in the ass, bro. Oh my, I don't even want to know. Like, so any any white dude with tattoos, that was him. Like everybody's calling. Like, hey, I saw this dude. I'm like, was he seven foot tall? I mean, oh no, he was five eight. I'm like, thanks. Have a great day. So they're just overwhelming tips. And you know, some of the guys from Alabama, the task force, some U.S. Marshals guys came in town and we're trying to cipher out what's real, what's not. Yeah. Uh, and trying to put guys out. You know, we were rolling through some of the um hotels that were typically known for some of these people to stay at and stuff, just trying to put eyes out. Um honestly, like I was like, I would have lost a paycheck on them. Like, there are no way they're still here. Um, so they get a tip, you know. We we were we were able to verify that um they did get another vehicle, and we were pretty certain what that vehicle was. So we're kind of looking for that vehicle. And uh we're checking cameras at intersections and stuff. Uh, and saw at one point it was northbound 41 here at Lynch. Their vehicle. Their vehicle. Like for sure. It well, they changed plates, but matching the description of one that we saw. Okay. Right. So one of the EPD detectives just happened to drive through here, which is the hotel right next to my facility on building. I mean, it's like I mean, literally, you can see the lot. It's right here. Right. You can see the lot. And uh, so we start spinning up guys, we're getting guys coming, uh, try to put eyes on it, and uh, where the car was located, there's no real goodware and place to sit without getting burnt. You know, you can't really get guys close. It was just not a good situation. So we're trying to pull in these teams, we're trying to get SWAT team, we're trying to figure out how we're gonna do this. It if it even is him, and is we're trying to get all this stuff together, we're gathering information, we confirm, you know, they had a pizza delivered. Like, okay, this is definitely was them. Um, so we're trying to get these guys here and do all this. And the next thing, you know, one of the guys from my team, like, he's walking out. I'm just like, yeah, bro, whatever. You know, I thought he was joking. Like, no, bro, he's walking out. So we got a barricade coming, we got, you know, armored vehicles, all that, trying to figure out, okay, can we do an open air takedown? Can we how can we get up on this dude without getting in the room, barricading themselves? We've got other people in the hotel room. Now we got potential tons of collateral, lots of problems, right? Yeah. You know, the hotel, some of those you can actually get from room to room through the attic. Uh so we're now thinking, okay, how are we gonna you know pin this dude down? So it was a lot of things going quickly, right? So he walks out and gets in the car. So now all of a sudden it's going mobile. Everything changes. We don't have enough guys close enough, but this is not something we just like, hey, we'll get in tomorrow, guys, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Uh so I hurry up and throw my dog in the kennel. Um, and he actually takes off down the road right next, right next to here, yokel, uh, right behind my building. Um, so we kind of tag in, trying to get cars close. And uh I fall in behind him like at 41 lynch, and he goes, Do you have a cam in your truck?
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, not to cut you up. I do not. So there's no footage of you tailing him. No. Oh, God, that'd be hot, dude.
SPEAKER_02:It was it was.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you.
SPEAKER_04:Uh so you know, we got all our dudes spun up. We got more guys coming, EPDs coming, trying to get more cars, because we knew, I mean, we had enough information, it was probably gonna be gunfight at the end or whatever it looked like. Yeah. Time of the day, of course, as Murphy's law would have it, 41 is jam-packed. Yeah, it's cars every year. So all those considerations, right? Like, they're the priority. We got to keep, you know, the civilian safe. Um, so I get up behind him at 41 here. He goes northbound um as we're trying to get cars in place. Like, you know, at the time I had a black Dodge Ram completely blacked out, and there's like four Dodge Rams behind me. So he he he's he understands what's up. Yeah, he's been in this in the system long enough and he's paying attention. His head's on a swivel. He knows that he's all over the news. Uh so he starts looking in his rearview mirror and it and the game was on. Like we knew that's it. And she's with him, right? She's with him, man. She's all over the car. And at the time, I think once I hit my lights and the chase was on, I believe she was calling 911 at the time. Or, you know, trying to, I don't know what she was doing. I I wouldn't really, I was more worried about him and what was going on. Right. Let's get this bad guy. Yeah, so I hit my lights, he takes off. Um, the chase is on. We're going up northbound 41. Again, traffic was horrible. Uh, any other situation, we would have terminated it. You know, it's not worth it. We know who the bandit is, we'll get him later. But obviously, something like this, like national news. We have to get this dude. Like, he's a danger to the public. Like, if some random cop stops him on I-69 three hours away and he walks up the car, he's probably gonna shoot him. Like, yeah, we gotta get this dude. Um, and we knew they had probably a bunch of weapons based off like she left a letter to her mom and all this in her home. We knew that they had her guns, so we knew there were guns in the car. Uh so as he takes off, uh, he's trying to reach all over the car. And again, he's almost seven foot, man. Like he can reach in the trunk, you know, from pretty much the driver's seat. He's a he's a big boy. Can you look up this gentleman's height? Let's see. I think he was like six nine, man. Six eight. What was his name again? Uh Casey White. Right there. It's that's him. That's him, and that's her.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what's his height? I'm just curious. Go to all, yeah. Six feet nine inches. Jesus, gargantuan. Holy moly.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, I don't know if that's Casey White, six foot nine.
SPEAKER_03:Approximately 330 pounds. He's brown hair, haze lies. He should be considered armed. And yeah, that's him from WVLT. Uh, sorry. Um, so you're you're in there, you're you're locked in. This dude's likely armed. This lady's calling the cops that's with him, this jailer shooting north on 41. Like, how far how far out does this go?
SPEAKER_04:So we we're continuing up 41, um, right past St. George here, which is kind of the next intersection. Yeah. Uh he's reaching all of the cars, she's reaching, so I figured, like, probably trying to reach for a gun. So at that point, I started hitting them uh with my truck just to kind of get them off balance. You know, every time they reach back, I'd ram them. Oh, no shit. Physically hitting them. Physically ramming them with my truck.
SPEAKER_03:What do you call that? A fishtail?
SPEAKER_04:Uh or a pit, a pit maneuver. Well, pit maneuvers you kind of spin somebody out. But you're just bumping them. Yeah, I'm using that dodge ram to ram. They should have made a TV commercial with that. They should have. The picture at the end. If the picture at the end, I mean it's essentially it's it's our team, and they're all Dodge Rams, and this car's in the ditch. Uh but anyway, uh, so he takes off, and every time they turn around, you know, I was expecting a gunfight in the vehicle. You know, I had my rifle up on the winch on the dashboard. I was ready to send it off.
SPEAKER_03:It was a carbine on a dashboard. Oh, yeah. So you're just doing one of these?
SPEAKER_04:Dogs barking in the back. Only thing I needed was a quarter pounder to eat, you know, I was trying to drive. Dude, that's fucking that was uh that's your hoodie right there. That's freedom, dude. It was a good time, man. Hell yeah, brother. Uh so as we come up northbound, you know, I'm hitting them the whole time, and I knew, you know, we couldn't let this cat get away. So he comes up close to Highway 57, which is the next major intersection up here by Anchor Industries.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And there's a turn lane to go on 57. So he goes into the turn lane trying to get around traffic. I hit him again and he spins into Anchor Industries, which is right up the street. Uh he's he goes into their parking lot, right? Yeah. Um, there's really only one way in, one way out of that. So he drives around the back of the building, which is full of employees, you know, people running everywhere. He trucks, no, no. No, no due regard at all, man. I mean, he's he's just going through it like a crazy man he was. Um so we follow him through there. Obviously, we still have to use due regard. Like we gotta we can't run over some dude, you know, on a fort truck or whatever. Uh so finally he makes his way out from the back into a big grass area, uh, trying to make his way back out to 41. Uh, and again, I was the first one in the chase, mainly because I have a dog. So if he bailed, right, I was gonna hit the door pop, let the dog deal with him, whatever. Um so once we get out in that grass space, like he was it was obvious he was trying to get to 41, and we knew that couldn't happen. Uh so I literally reached down, hit the tow mode button on my Dodge Ram in Florida.
unknown:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04:And uh next thing I knew, we were in a ditch. I had no idea that ditch was probably seven foot tall. Um so I hit him. Um he went into the ditch. Another uh one of the TFOs or Marshall from Alabama, they hit him. I think three of us finally, and then the car rolled onto its side um into the ditch.
SPEAKER_03:Um where Lexi, can you look up a love behind bars end uh ending crash scene so you can so we can build this picture for the viewer. Just look up Love Behind Bars ending crash scene. And it's so funny, Brian actually has this framed and in his office. Yeah, go to images. Um, yeah, go there. Um, it's one of these. No. Your truck is in it. You probably hit Casey. Yeah, take Casey. Take Casey out. Or that, or white, yeah. If not, I can have you send it to me and I'll plug it in.
SPEAKER_04:But yeah, bottom left or top left there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that one.
SPEAKER_04:Or the second one's probably a better picture.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that second one's it. Yeah, this is pretty much what you have framed, pretty close to what you have framed. So that's my Dodge Ram there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you guys clapped that. So, anyways, we get to talk.
SPEAKER_04:Some of that shouldn't be a Dodge Ram. That should be November, Dodge Ram, by Dodge Ram.
SPEAKER_03:I hand of God it should be. Honestly, and then it still ran, I assume, afterwards. Oh no. No? No, no. It bent it bent some stuff up. We had to put her down. We no, no, we got it fixed. Oh, see?
SPEAKER_04:She's still running. She's out there still in this day.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, so this kind of puts into perspective kind of what the end collision looked like. And then if I've seen the documentary, so I know how it ends, but how did it end?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so uh, you know, he was again so big that even the vehicle was on its side. I so I jumped out, uh, had him at gunpoint, giving him commands. Um again, expecting an end gun fight, right? Yeah. Um, but there was smoke everywhere from you know the airbags. I mean, it it was complete chaos, obviously.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:My dog hit the kennel, so you know, I was a little worried about him too, and trying to make sure he didn't jump out. But um, you know, giving him commands, he is so big, even the way the vehicle is there, both of his arms come completely out of the driver's side. Like, like it's upright the way it's supposed to be. Like surrendering, like hands up saying straight up. He didn't want any part of it. Didn't want smoke. He didn't want no smoke. He was a coward. Um, her, on the other hand, she she ended it herself. So um she terminates. She terminates, she's done. She knows the prison's not the place for her. Yeah, because that's where she was heading. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Federal offenses. Yeah, she's that's a bad deal. Yeah, she was done.
SPEAKER_03:I dude, I just think that's so cool. I had no idea that I when I when we first met, when we started talking about this space, that you had any hand in that operation. And then let alone you were one of the vehicles that threw this SOB into a ditch. And I saw the picture in your office, I was like, Yeah, I love that documentary. He was like, Oh, yeah, it's my truck. I threw him in the ditch. Yeah, it was a good time.
SPEAKER_04:It was a team effort, man. I I was I I say it all the time, man. I uh work with some of the greatest dudes ever. We had a we called ourselves the hide seek champs.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, yeah. And uh one one cool thing is like uh there's gonna be more content coming out from lawman here soon, hopefully. And as we get to towards the end of the episode, we want to know like, was there ever a moment in this journey, either law enforcement or with lawman tactical, where you're like you wanted to throw in the towel? And uh you don't have to talk about the moment if you don't want to, but like what pulled you through the fire? What keeps you going? What's what's your driving force?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I don't know, definitely not in law enforcement. I never felt like I wanted to throw in the towel. I mean, I feel like it was my purpose, you know, for sure. Uh coming out of that, right, transitioning into this new life was extremely tough, understanding what that looked like. Um as far as throwing in the towel, I mean, there's a lot of hard days here. You know, there's a lot of moving parts at this place, and um but I I think what keeps me going is I've got probably 40 employees here, right? That's what keeps me going. Um because it's not just about me and my family. It impacts them. Yeah, it's 40 families, man. And it's uh, you know, a lot of members that come here that this is their this is their safe space, man. They love it here, they uh they like to work out, they like to train, they like to go in the lounge, they just like to experience. And uh I've literally had a lot of members thank me for building this place is because it's what they needed in their life. So this is bigger than me, it's bigger than my family. So those are the things on the hard days that uh get me out of bed and and make me, you know, figure out how to put out the fire for the day.
SPEAKER_03:I said it in the beginning of the episode, man, and I I mean it, you really are helping folks stay alive, you know what I mean? So you're giving them the tools and the knowledge that they need to utilize in very stressful, um, like you had said, life-altering uh, you know, could possibly terminating situations. Um yeah, so huge gratitude that you're bringing that to our community for the last umpteen years. It's been how many years you've been doing lawman? Five, five, six years, probably longer than that.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, between we started downtown, so probably nine years now.
SPEAKER_03:Nine years, almost a decade of you just like slinging that knowledge, slinging that gear. I dude, seriously, I commend you. And this, what you've built here is just this is beautiful. Yeah. I appreciate it. Um really, really great shit coming out of Lawman, dude. Again, uh just out here off of Lynch in 41. Get out here. It's a huge building. You can't miss it. Huge, beautiful sign. Um, they got a cafe, a dojo, a shooting range, uh, shooting ranges. Um, they've got tons of stuff, man. Just get out. Horses, gym, restaurant, just endless. Problem solving is what I'm most pumped about. I got to get with you for November. I'm serious about that. Yeah, check them out. All the links are in the bio.
SPEAKER_02:We'll have a link to the calendar in the bio. Yeah, absolutely. All that jazz.
SPEAKER_03:Um, last minute dates or shout-outs you want to give to anybody. Uh anything you got coming up you want to put out into the world, this will come out in like two weeks. Yeah, just check out our November calendar.
SPEAKER_04:And again, if uh everything from if you never shot a gun before to problem solving, and uh, we're happy to help you any way we can.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, lawman.com, lawmantactical.com.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_03:Lawmantactical.com, go to the calendar, uh, everything's on there. So find what you're into. And again, they've got memberships starting at like 40 bucks a month, man. So just get out of here. Um, you know, help support a really great cause, dude. So appreciate you guys. Hey, dude, I appreciate you uh more than ever. You've given us an amazing opportunity, and uh we're gonna take the ball and run with it. So just thank you so much. Seriously. Bottom of our hearts, man. Um, and thank you to the viewers, listeners. Uh, thank you guys so much. Like, subscribe, do all the things. Uh, this has been another thrilling episode of the day's Grimm. My name is Brian Michael Day. My name is Thomas Grimm. This has been Brian Bishop of Law Man's Hatchville. Thank you so much, man. Thank you, Jenny.
SPEAKER_00:You know what the middle is, dude?