The Days Grimm Podcast
The Days Grimm, "arguably Indiana's most comical, thrilling, and controversial podcast", This three-pronged mandate acts as a primary filter for their guest selection. The "comical" aspect is reflected in its official genre of "COMEDY INTERVIEWS" and its history of hosting local stand-up comedians. The "thrilling" component is evident in interviews with individuals who have extraordinary life stories, such as people who survived shootings, rare medical conditions, and combat. Finally, the "controversial" element is demonstrated by Brian & Thomas’ willingness to engage in difficult or unfiltered conversations, touching on topics like homelessness, artificial intelligence, and religious hypotheticals.
A crucial element of the show's tone is its tagline, "Brought to you by Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)". This self-aware and raw positioning signals a modern comedic sensibility that embraces vulnerability and finds humor in personal struggle. The podcast's brand is not built on polished narratives but on the authentic, often messy, intersection of hardship and humor. The most compelling guests are those who have navigated a "Grimm" reality and emerged with a story to tell, and ideally, a sense of humor about it. This dynamic is the core of the show's appeal and the primary filter for identifying a story worth telling.
The Days Grimm Podcast
Ep. 243 From SWAT to Sig Sauer: Korey Mauck on Law Enforcement, Deployments, and Firearms Training
Welcome to another thrilling episode of The Day's Grimm podcast! Hosts Brian Michael Day and Thomas Grimm sit down with Korey Mauck, a Posey County native with an incredible career spanning military service, law enforcement, and the firearms industry.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Growing Up in Posey County: Korey shares stories from his rural upbringing, playing high school sports, and the shift in childhood culture.
- Military Service: Hear about Korey's time in the National Guard as a Forward Observer, his experiences in basic training, and his deployment to Mosul, Iraq, including convoy security missions and encountering IEDs.
- Law Enforcement Career: Korey details his 12-year career with the Indiana State Police (ISP), from the rigorous hiring process and academy training to working the road and joining the SWAT team. He shares intense stories from his time on SWAT, including high-risk warrants and police action shootings.
- Transition to Sig Sauer: Learn how Korey leveraged his expertise to become a Law Enforcement Sales Representative for Sig Sauer, traveling across the Midwest to demo firearms and train departments. He even shares a hilarious story about out-shooting a skeptical SWAT officer during a demo!
- Life & Advice: The conversation covers the challenges of balancing family life with high-stress careers, advice for those interested in military or law enforcement paths, and the importance of resilience.
Whether you're interested in military stories, police work, or the firearms industry, this episode is packed with insights and humor.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Intro & Welcome Korey Mock
02:02 - Growing up in Posey County
07:51 - High School Sports & College Football
19:08 - Joining the National Guard (13F Fire Support Specialist)
24:10 - Applying for Indiana State Police (ISP)
32:32 - ISP Academy Experience
37:23 - Deployment to Mosul, Iraq (Convoy Security)
47:39 - Surviving an IED Blast
58:45 - Life as an Indiana State Trooper
01:05:21 - Joining the ISP SWAT Team
01:19:17 - Transitioning to Sig Sauer (LE Sales Rep)
01:25:37 - Out-shooting a Skeptical SWAT Officer
01:33:39 - Advice for Joining the Military & Law Enforcement
#TheDaysGrimm #KoreyMauck #IndianaStatePolice #SWAT #SigSauer #MilitaryPodcast #LawEnforcement #FirearmsTraining #NationalGuard #Mosul #IraqWar #Veteran
[The Days Grimm Podcast Links]
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDaysGrimm
- Our link tree: linktr.ee/Thedaysgrimm
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[The Days Grimm is brought to you by]
Sadness & ADHD (non-medicated)
Hello! Hello, hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to another thrilling episode of The Day's Grimm. My name is Brian Michael Day. My name is Thomas Grimm. How are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm doing just leaving it at that. I'm okay.
SPEAKER_02:I'm doing it. We're really doing it, Red Band.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you're surviving. That's what matters, man. Um, could you do me a favor and help welcome into uh the Day's Grimm studio, Mr. That is a sorry ass drum roll. Corey Mock. What's up, sir? How are you? Doing great. How are you guys doing? Uh I'm great. I'm having the best day I've had in a long time, as opposed to uh Yeah, he got his first deer.
SPEAKER_02:As you can tell, he's still in the camera.
SPEAKER_03:I saw a picture earlier. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm weird about that. I'm kind of glad that I was hoping we wouldn't bring this up, but I knew it was kind of inevitable. Is it weird that for my first deer, actually, I don't think I'm ever gonna post a picture on my Facebook of my deer. Is that is that fucking weird? I don't have Facebook. Is that or like I don't I don't think I'm gonna post anything? Why?
SPEAKER_02:Because you're afraid of people.
SPEAKER_03:No, because everything I've learned so far, side tangent, and then prom I promise we're you guys are gonna find out who Cory Mock is if you don't already know, but um, side tangent. I think it's um it's not disrespectful to the to like the creature, but to me it's more than a post on social media.
SPEAKER_02:I posted a photo of the four rabbits I butchered, and then I immediately sent a photo of the meat in the cooler. Somebody who's like nice before and after. Yeah. So Corey, uh, you want to give our listeners like a brief elevator pitch of like who you are and what you do?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, you know, my name's Corey Mock. I grew up in Poseyville. Um yeah. Have some uh have yeah, exactly, some Posey County.
SPEAKER_00:Uh military of that. No, I'm just joking. I'm from there, so I get it. I get it.
SPEAKER_01:Have military background, um, law enforcement background. Uh did some work with uh SIG Sour, uh kind of got big into firearms on the training side, uh kind of through uh law enforcement and then obviously at uh at SIG. Uh now the company I work for, uh they do work on AC and DC Electric Motors, which is outside versus Edison.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's right. And also I forgot my name of the employer now because yeah, uh, you know, Tom does like to bring up his stripper stories every now and then. I don't want that to be affiliated with. Uh no, I'm just kidding. But all jokes aside, uh, you've done a lot. You have a tremendous amount of knowledge with like law, you know, with firearms, military, law enforcement, and I I really want to dig into that stuff. But um what was first and foremost, I already know, but a lot of our listeners aren't from Posey County. So what was it like being a youth in growing up in Posey County?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well for those that don't know them, it's just very rural. Uh there's really nothing there. Poseyville, I mean, to this day, doesn't have a stoplight in it. Yeah, they got a gas station that has the subway in it. I thought they had small Dollar Generals. That was like the big thing. The Dollar Generals.
SPEAKER_03:They had one of those red blinking stop signs. They don't have one of those? No. Not Poseyville. Damn, I thought they did. It's been minutes I've been. Wadesville has one. I mean, I'm thinking of Wadesville, real close to the street. You're thinking of the turn to Poseyville. Yeah, that's probably what I'm thinking of. You're right. You're right. Uh, but yeah, big shout out to Poseyville.
SPEAKER_02:Basically, it's just Knicks Industries. That's Poseyville.
SPEAKER_01:Now it is, yeah. So we're back then it wasn't.
SPEAKER_03:That means you went to Posey. North Posey. North Posey, right? Is the only high school you can go to. And Wadesville goes there too, right? And then somebody else goes there.
SPEAKER_01:Like Cynthia, Poseyville, Wadesville, Blairsville, that that kind of so what was what was that like?
SPEAKER_03:Uh huge school, right? No.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, not big. Not big at all. Um, you know, growing up, I I guess it's what you know. Um, you know, I I always tell my kids, uh, I got five kids. Uh I know. But uh I tell my kids I actually feel sorry for them now. You know, when we were growing up, it was especially during the summer. You were up early and you were outside and played all day. You might come home to eat, you know, came home to eat supper if nothing else. And then you were back out playing tag or you know, basketball at the neighbors, and and you just we were outside all the time. Like my kids are never outside. It's just it's totally different world.
SPEAKER_02:That kind of that switch happened during our generation.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was real real close. Until middle school.
SPEAKER_02:Like once you hit middle school, high school, that's when kids started getting cell phones, that's when video started to get busy.
SPEAKER_01:See, I didn't, you know, we didn't have cell phones when I was in high school. I think I was somewhere in college had my first course. It was a flip phone. There wasn't you really didn't do anything, it was just if I had car trouble or an emergency, you'd use it. But yeah, you weren't on it talking really to most people.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I didn't get a cell phone until I started driving, but they had been out long before that. Yeah, I think they like the flip phones and stuff, they'd been out since I think my parents conned me.
SPEAKER_02:I got a cell phone and then I was grounded from it the whole time I had it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. They didn't want you blowing all the minutes.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. Oh no. I did some shady stuff to get a phone.
SPEAKER_03:No, and the weird thing that a lot of like, okay, so even uh I don't know how old you are, Corey, but like roughly your generation, the like the city kids versus like Posey County, I know there's a big difference between like because I lived in the city and in the county kind of my youth.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but all the city kids would come to the county to party, right?
SPEAKER_03:I'm talking about youth youth, like eight, nine, ten years old, you'd go ride bikes and go look at dead bodies and stuff over the railroad tracks, you know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_02:But I think you mean flattened pennies on the railroad tracks.
SPEAKER_03:But the the city kids, their parents would always say, You beat home by the time the street lamps come on. That's a big city kid thing. Yeah. In the county, I feel like when we moved out there, because my parents told me that when I was little, be home by before the street, when the streetlights come on, your ass is here. And then when we moved out of the county, they were like, We don't fucking care. Uh they were just like, Don't get ate by a coyote. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And yeah, back to you said, you know, I mean, he was riding bikes all over the place. It was going to, you know, your buddies, you know, getting into his dad's Playboy stash and logic.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Refilling their whiskey bottles with water and thinking about so they wouldn't find out.
SPEAKER_03:So you get to high school. What is um what what consumes a lot of people? Did you play sports growing up?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's what I was getting. Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, played sports growing up. I really uh when I was little, I I was not very good. Um, but probably the normal sports, you did the baseball. Um I did you know, flag football. You didn't do tackle until you got into junior high. Uh you know, back then, yeah. Yeah. What?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we didn't tackle football until middle school.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That was E Y J F L anybody? No.
SPEAKER_02:I don't even know what that means.
SPEAKER_03:It's the Evansville Junior Football League. I wasn't around here there in that time. All I'm telling you is I was getting tackled and tackling kids when I was like six.
SPEAKER_02:And that's probably why you have permanent CT.
SPEAKER_01:We didn't have that. Yeah, that tracks. We had flag football, like I said, up to the city. Well, it could be.
SPEAKER_03:I only had two options, whenever we'll get there.
SPEAKER_02:Uh going into high school, what's like I assume your youth is like trying all the sports, but like when you get to high school, did you stick with like one or two?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so when I got uh when I got into high school, uh you know, football was my main sport. Um I did wrestling and then track were really my three sports in high school.
SPEAKER_02:So those are like I feel like a lot of a lot of wrestlers do track. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like to keep the weight off and well that and it's um it's really they're both you're using a lot of muscle, but over a long like you're using a lot of strength, I'll say a lot of twitch muscle, but you need to sustain that for a while.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I didn't I didn't do long distance, I was a sprinter. Um I did running back, yeah. So I was a running back, um, you know, defensive back, safety, and then uh yeah, wrestling. I got into that. My mom tried to keep me from football and and wrestling and all that stuff. She wanted me to play tennis and uh I did basketball two years ago. Yeah, they do. Uh but oh, like for the school or just like in the park. Oh, nice, dude. I was good at tennis growing up, like when I was little before high school.
SPEAKER_03:That's a quick Twitch game.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was I was good at tennis, but just I I want to do football and wrestling. Like making the noises. No.
SPEAKER_03:It's kind I I don't mean this like disparagingly, but it's kind of gay. Uh no, I'm just kidding. But like I was watching, I watched the the open uh US Open whenever it was around a couple months ago. I don't know if anybody nobody that listens to this podcast watched the U.S. Open, I guarantee you.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I got a buddy that's a big gambler, and if he hits a day, he gambles on anything, he'll he'll bet on tennis and the US the US Open was just in um October, I think, the beginning of October, end of August, somewhere in there. But I was watching it, and even the guys are to the point where they're like, Yeah, they've always been making noises. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, dude. This is getting a little gay. Uh and the girls you watch football with just the sound and you're in the other room. The girls are aggressive too. Don't do that. The foot he gets mad about all the innuendos they use in football.
SPEAKER_02:I don't get mad about it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, you like to make fun of me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you call all these other sports gay, and if you listen to football sound only, pretty gay.
SPEAKER_00:Right in the back door. Oh, he came all over it.
SPEAKER_03:Big gaping hole, you know. Uh so what out of all those sports you did, what was your uh number one pick? Uh football. Football was your number one and defensive back and then offensive back as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, running back. You played that all through high school. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So size were you? How big were you?
SPEAKER_01:Man, I wasn't very big. Um, you know, when I was a freshman, I I wrestled 135. Damn, you and I were about the same size. And then by my senior year, I wrestled 171. I didn't quite weigh 171, but that's what I wrestled. And then um, I mean, I lettered my sophomore, junior, and senior year in football, and then four in wrestling and four and track. So did you do good in high school? Like in actual grades? Uh grade-wise, I did, but school wasn't my priority. Yeah, for people I know, you know what I mean. I liked lunch, I liked L I P class class. I liked the social aspect of the girls. Yeah. Dude, you and I were on the same. I think we're on the same. And like Friday nights, and yeah, you know. Hell yeah, dude. So yeah, that was uh that was Are you still into sports nowadays? It's funny. Um I really quit sports. I used, I mean, used to probably like most guys, you know, Saturday was college game day. And then, you know, you'd watch the NFL on Sunday and then Monday nights. And man, when they started kneeling for the anthem, I quit watching. Piss on it.
SPEAKER_03:That pissed me off.
SPEAKER_01:And honestly, even now, like with college, yeah, they're all getting paid, and it's just like I don't know, it just it's almost taking all the fun out of it. I really don't watch it much anymore. Yeah, I I'd spend a lot of my Saturdays, I'd rather be hunting in the woods now.
SPEAKER_03:So I think I'm getting pretty I I have now found a new addiction that you know football might go by the wayside.
SPEAKER_01:And I have five kids, so there's not very many weekends that there's not some sort of event going on that we're not at. So I just don't watch a lot of TV in general anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and that's good, man. That's good. Do your kids you don't do you let your kids watch TV and stuff?
SPEAKER_01:We really don't have, I mean, we don't have like a cable subscription or anything like that. My buddies make fun of me. Um we do a lot of that. Uh a lot of the stuff we watch would be like on Amazon Prime, but we watch in uh you know Jim Shockey hunting or meat eaters. We watch a lot of hunting shows. You know, I've got a five-year-old and a two-year-old, so they'll watch Paw Patrol or something like that. I'd love to do Paw Patrol, dude. We really don't watch a whole lot of TV. We're so dang busy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. You know who I don't trust? I still don't trust Dora the Explorer, though.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_03:Ice Gotter. Um, so Corey, uh, what what do you do right after high school?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So uh after high school, um, I ended up going up to Wabash College in Crawfordsville. Uh it was the all-guy school, so I don't know if that that's not gay.
SPEAKER_03:Are they at D2? No, it's not they were they were D three. It's actually the opposite. D three. Yeah, they were D three and they had a football team, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So I went there and played football. Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What'd you study?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so that's a it was a liberal arts college. I really didn't know what I was gonna do. I was good at like biology and that kind of stuff. My grandpa was a biology teacher. Nice. Um, so I kind of started in that. Uh I only went there a semester, played my freshman year. Uh actually ended up starting uh as a freshman there. Uh and then I transferred down to Murray State, uh, tried to walk on, and and I just went down there and partied and it it was uh Well, it's different too.
SPEAKER_02:So was partying your major? What was your minor down there at Murray State?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Girls, I guess. What uh so one thing from like I'm a big sports guy. I I'm a huge sports guy, actually. I watch just about anything. I know a little bit about all sports, but what is the difference going from a D3 school to a D Murray's D1 school? Yeah. So what is the di like you played with all those guys, right? And started even, and you were kind of you were kind of probably mid or high tier for that level, but then you get to Murray State. Did you get to see any of the other players or any of the other players?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it was I did, yes. Um and it was really weird. Uh what was the gap? There's got to be a it's huge, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and Murray State's not even apologies in advance. Again, they're not even a great D1 school. No. You know what I mean? But like, what was that gap like?
SPEAKER_01:Man, so to put it in perspective, so uh one of my good buddies when I got to Murray, his name was Duke Salavea.
SPEAKER_03:What a sick fucking name.
SPEAKER_01:Or uh Duke Vinaw, sorry, sorry, Duke Vinaw.
SPEAKER_03:Uh not as cool.
SPEAKER_01:It's well, his uncle was Joe Salaveya.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Salavea, way cooler. Yeah. So anyway, so Big Duke, unfortunately, passed away this past year. Uh super good dude. He was a big Samoan. So he was 6'5, probably 360 pounds, and he ran like a 4'740. Like he was a freak. Tom runs a 4'8. Yeah. At the time I was running like a 4'3 5, and for the first 15 yards, like he's right beside me. Yeah. I mean, just a freak of an athlete. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And uh underestimate that.
SPEAKER_01:You just don't realize how big. How big and fast and agile. Yeah, it's it was a different ball game. Uh, but at any rate, so uh his uncle was Joe Salavea, and at the time he played for the Tennessee Titans, like when we won the Super Bowl with um was it Eddie George as the running back and he's got champion in blood. Uh Junior Sao was his cousin.
SPEAKER_03:That's okay. You know, right?
SPEAKER_00:But you should be allowed to play, dude.
SPEAKER_01:And he was just he was a freak of an athlete. Yeah, super good dude, and just as nice as I'll get out. Uh that's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:I've not so I went to U of E, right? And I had been I've known other friends of mine that have gone to like D3, D2 schools to play ball, like basketball, football, whatever, random shit. Um, but when I went to U of E and met those basketball players, like you're meeting because they're a D1 basketball team and they try to make a run for the bracket every year. They're legit competitor for the most part, but they're getting kids in from like Yugoslavia, those big Slavic son bitches that don't speak English, they're seven foot nine, just slam dunking every play, like wildly different from any other experience with like D2 and D3 athletes. I know. Oh, absolutely. They're just multiple.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and even Wabash, even at the time, I mean, I can rem it was kind of shocking to me. You know, I come from a little place in Indiana, yeah. And the number of guys that were coming from Texas, like those big Texas high schools. Oh, yeah. You know, I can remember some of them talking about how many people would be at their Friday night football games down there at some of those games.
SPEAKER_03:500, 2500.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, thousands of people at some of those games. And you know, I was like, we had you know 400.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I mean, it was just Texas football is like religious.
SPEAKER_01:And so it was a thing, it was just it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03:We'll get away from that. Tom hates uh sports ball. So um I like watching fights. That's about it. Yeah, yeah, he's a UFC guy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I got into UFC. I used to, man, I did it for a little bit. Um oh, Scott Henzie was his name. I don't know if you ever heard of him. He went to Tel C was a good wrestler, but he used to do those hook and shoot fights.
SPEAKER_03:I remember the hook and shoots they used to do here in Evans. Yeah, yeah. So uh they do them at the Robert Stadium before they tore it down, I think.
SPEAKER_01:And then they had on the Bob's gym on the west side, they had that little annex, and there used to be like a boxing ring in there, but they would do mixed martial arts stuff. I kind of met him uh on the west side at the gym one time, and he's like, You should come over and do that. So I started doing that, and I loved it. So I got into kind of that hook and shoot type stuff, and then I got into Mui Thai, Jiu-Jitsu. I was about to say, did you get into the arts? Like, yeah, I did. I did. I did.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, that's the downside to MMA is that like nobody, there's no rules on like what practice of art, you know what I mean, what art you practice. When you step into that ring, if you suck a BJJ and this dude's a BJJ expert, you're in trouble. Buckle up, you know what I mean? Uh your stand-up's legit. You know what I mean? Like it's it's just yeah, MMA is very interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Um so uh Mary State, what happens from there?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so yeah, uh school was not my thing. Um that's what I kind of learned. Um I ended up coming back and you know, got some different odds and ends jobs throughout the time. Um I did landscaping. Did you get by? Yeah, yeah. Landscaping is kind of rewarding though. Yeah, I loved it. Honestly, I loved it. Yeah, it's a nice job to add. I enjoyed working and being physical, so that didn't really bother me.
SPEAKER_02:Um it's cool that you can actually see the progress. That's like my favorite thing about landscaping, is like it starts as this horrible looking thing, and then by the end of it, it's like you get a reward just from looking at it, yet alone the physical labor.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And then uh then 9-11 happens and uh right. And my um she's my wife now, but at the time, heck, I think we're just dating, but uh her dad was in the National Guard out of Evansville here at the 163rd.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh anyway, I really had no direction. I ended up going in there and signing up and uh so then I eventually went to basic, you know, AIT, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Uh and this was for the Marines?
SPEAKER_01:It's for the National Guard.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, for the National Guard, National Guard, which is always Army, right? Yeah, I don't know. Army National Guard, yeah. And there's okay, one question that I always have that I always fuck up and get wrong real quick before we go further into the military. Can you define the difference between reserves and national guard? Because I always fuck it up. Yeah, I would fuck it up too. I don't think I know the difference. Okay, well, scratch that. Uh yeah, I don't um I got nothing on that. One's for like uh like Katrina, like national I think it's National Guard responds to national disasters and reserves deploy to different countries, but National Guard doesn't deploy to different countries. I think to my knowledge, that's the difference.
SPEAKER_01:But again that may have been how it was supposed to. Yeah, but but I mean we went overseas, so with the National Guard?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, fuck me, I'm wrong. Again, folks, don't quote me. I'm fucking retarded.
SPEAKER_01:That's what Google's for. It's in there somewhere. So what's what's uh like going into the National Guard? Well, really, like as far as basic and AIT, it's not any different. It's just once you're done with basic and AIT, instead of going to whatever your first duty station is, I just came back home and then you do your one weekend, a month, your two weeks in the summer. Did you have to go to Texas for your so uh so at the time the 163rd was a field artillery unit. Um so I ended up doing I was a 13 Fox is what MOS uh Ford Observer. Oh yeah, fister band. Yeah, I was a fister. Let's go, dude. Everybody loves a fister. Yeah. So my basic in AIT was at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Uh so went to went to Fort Sill, yeah, flat. Real flat. Yeah. Uh and we'd call in rounds, you know, and it was awesome. Uh I so kind of from that, I really I enjoyed it and kind of found my niche because it it was a lot of the stuff I was good at. I'd been yelled at from all the sports growing up, so that really didn't bother me. Yeah. Uh, you know, all the physical activity, the running, push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups. Yeah, let's let's do it. So I I ate it up. Um, and so uh you know, I really excelled at basic and AIT, actually. So you get married right when you come back? Uh so no, I was engaged by the time I left, but uh, we came back. My wife's smart. Um, so she was uh she ended up going to uh grad school. She's a speech pathologist now. Oh yeah. So real smart. She's a smart lady, yeah. Yeah, grad school is nothing to and so she was doing that, and so yeah, we kind of waited till after she got done with grad school uh to get married. So did you you didn't did you go on any deployments with the National Guard? You said you had to Yeah, but it was it ended up being later, so I got back and I knew a bunch of people just from around the local area, and so um they kind of end up putting me into recruiting, and so I would go to a lot of the schools just because I knew so many people. Um did you hate it? I I liked I I enjoyed talking to people, so I I didn't really mind it. Um you know, uh and you try to get those kids that you knew needed it, yeah. The knuckleheads, yeah, yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, try to help them out and hey kid, do some push-ups. Can you do 10 of them? Get over here, dude. Come here, buddy. Come here, little fella. What are you, a side medium? Get over here.
SPEAKER_01:So, no, I did that for a while. So actually, like the first deployment that they had, I ended up missing because at the time obviously recruitment was was hard because there was a lot of stuff going on. It wasn't that initial wave when everybody, you know, you got all your gung-ho guys that wanted to go right out the gate, and then it was towers, you know what I'm saying? And then, but as it prolonged, like people are like, I don't want to go over there, you know. So I know if I sign up, I'm going. So you were recruiting 2005, 2006-ish?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a grimy time. I remember that in 2005, 2006, at 98.
SPEAKER_01:And so, yeah, like if you were doing the recruiting stuff, you they really were keeping you back to try to get people to join. So I missed the first one. Um where'd they go, do you know? Offhands. I think Afghanistan.
SPEAKER_03:It was Afghanistan? Yeah, I think.
SPEAKER_01:That's ugly. I can't remember. I I I really don't remember.
SPEAKER_03:But you do wind up going on one.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I do wind up going on one and and before I get there, I'll kind of so I end up getting into uh car sales and work at Expressway down in Mount Vernon.
SPEAKER_03:Because you have to have you have to have a nine to five, right? Yeah. Even in the National Guard, because you're only doing the one week in a month. Correct.
SPEAKER_01:So I end up getting into that. And uh uh Gary Watson is the guy's name. He was our uh general manager at the time. He was a prior law enforcement guy, and so he actually he I filled out my application to the Indiana State Police at his office at work one time. What was his first name? Kenny? Gary.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I know Kenny Watson, I think they're related. Yeah, this guy's Gary.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, um, so I fill fill all my application and stuff out to the state police, and eventually I get I get hired, you know. I go through that whole process and get uh well no, I guess not hired, but I get a uh conditional offer of employment where pretty much you go to the academy if you can pass and you know get through all the training and then get through your year of uh you know probationary officer stuff, then you then you would have a job essentially.
SPEAKER_03:Let's take a quick time out there because there's a couple of big pieces happening here. Yep, right? These are two huge life moments. You're talking about joining the Indiana State Police, and you've not yet you're about to go on this tour across seas, right?
SPEAKER_01:So I don't know about this tour yet. You don't know yet.
SPEAKER_03:So let's focus on the ISP. So walk me through that. So for Tom, maybe have we talked about ISP?
SPEAKER_02:I know that Brian has been wanting to get into the Indiana State Police since he got back off from the military. I did.
SPEAKER_03:The pay is outstanding, or it was I think it is.
SPEAKER_02:Is that new that new patrol vehicle too that they just released a photo of Tesla? Like, no, it's uh there's a Mustang, and then there's one of the new uh Dodge or whatever the their like version of the Fort Explorer. Oh the Durango. Yeah, Durango, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:They posted a new so well, okay. So a lot of folks know that if you if you want to join Metro, you can go knock on their knock on their door right now. Metro boom. Uh you can go knock on their door right now and they'll take you. Like almost immediately, because Metro needs people like out the wazoo. But for whatever reason, I and I think you and I briefly spoke about this previously on a on a ruck and rosary. Shout out to Paul Lindbergh who runs those every last Saturday of uh of the month. Yeah, they're awesome. Um but we spoke a little bit about like why in the hell is it so difficult to get onto ISP? Because like I had gone three years in a row to those workout camps up in Princeton and applying three years in a row and and was out of the military and a thoroughbred. Yeah, just a natural. I felt I mean like I performed well, like my scores like I PT'd better than the top the bottom, you know, two thirds. I was in the top third, like I was just in my prime, and I never got a call. I don't know if it's probably humor. And I didn't have tattoos. I had that. You said it was the tattoos, and I didn't even have the tattoos yet.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for a brief time they had like um and I don't know if it was kicking guys out, but it was they were for four arm tattoos, yeah, when everybody was sleeved.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I know when I went through, I mean, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_03:I think what was your process like? Let's start there. How tough was it to get to that candidacy letter that you got or that on well, I mean you do your you know, you've got your physical tests that you gotta do, your push-ups and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01:You had the written tests that you had to do, um, and I think that kicked a lot of people out. Um you had to do your background check, that always gets a lot of guys. I mean, it's a it would be insane the stuff that you would see or the people that would come to do those. Um I mean, we had a guy one time we were arrested at the um at the post when he came up to do his interview because he had a warrant. That's crazy. I mean that's funny that's crazy. I always found it interesting.
SPEAKER_00:How'd you not know? I had a bench warrant, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Not for ISP. Crazy bro, no, you belong at the jail, like in the jail.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, come on in for your interview. So I mean they're doing the background and see, they're like, Yeah, come on in for your interview. Zip them up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, all right, buddy, you're coming out.
SPEAKER_02:When you do that, when you put apply, uh, do they do like a lie detector test and all that jazz? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh and they're like, you know, how strict was your drug use and all that jazz?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so from what I can remember, so uh from what I can remember, uh it really wasn't like this gotcha question. You know, you kind of have you have you guys ever done a lie detector test? I haven't I would like to.
SPEAKER_03:Well they so like a polygraph that you did, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like the standard chess rig and the little um so you come in and they kind of just go through like their standard of questions, and so like on the drug stuff, hey, like you know, they're asking about drugs, so you're like, hey, I yeah, I've I've tried marijuana or this or that, and they're like, Well, when was the last time you did it? You know, for me I did it in college, so it's like I mean, you're talking years, yeah, military. So yeah, so like when they ask the question, you know, I've told them that it's been years. So if they say, Have you smoked marijuana in the last year? and I say no, and it goes off, well then they know I'm lying, right? I would fail. So you just hey, it's been in six months. So then they would say, Hey, have you smoked marijuana in the last six months? No. And and so they it's kind of uh structured, it's not uh They're just making sure you're being honest in the front with them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and they do tell you that, like, don't try to wiggle your way out, don't tell them what they want to hear. Correct. Like, there have been guys that have gotten hired that have been like, Oh yeah, I uh illegally took a C or uh you know somebody's prescription one time or something.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's not it's but yeah, like you said, guys are like shit, I don't want to tell them. I've I've never I've never done drugs or whatever.
SPEAKER_03:If they weren't taking you as a serious candidate, though. So you might as well just exactly but open it up.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of guys you know freak out on that part and you don't you breeze through ISP. So so yeah, I'd I mean, you know, the process is long, so you would do something, it might be months before you ever hear, and you just you kind of think, well shit, I'm out or whatever, and then you'll get a uh letter or a call that says, hey, this is when the next step is. So I mean I yeah, I eventually make it through all of that.
SPEAKER_02:What do you what do you deal like what do you do to deal with those moments? Because like I'm in a similar situation right now where it's standby.
SPEAKER_03:He's frozen. I just now saw that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what do you do in like a so like like when you're like what you want this opportunity real bad, and then you like do the next step, and then you gotta wait a month and then you get to take another step forward. What's that, you know, like what are you telling yourself during that time? I mean, you're still in the National Guard, so you're still trying to.
SPEAKER_01:I still have a job and and engaged at the time, and so I mean, life is moving along, but yeah, you're like, man, I really I don't want to be doing this car sales thing forever. Like, I really hope I get this opportunity and and you know, you just kind of keep hoping and praying that you get it. Yeah, no shit, man.
SPEAKER_03:And you're also in your 20s at this time, yes, 26. Just out here, you're still physically active at that point, like you're working out like outside of the National Guard and stuff, right? Yeah. Stay fit. Like, yeah, dude. It's hard to bust down a 26-year-old that's physically active. Those are the ones that are just so mechanically internally driven that like so.
SPEAKER_01:Do you get confirmed on ISP before you go over so so yeah, so I end up getting getting all my my letter and everything, and the academy started, I think it was like in the middle of June in 2007. Yeah. Um, and it's uh six months is the Academy. And so it's up in Plainfield, Indiana, so I was spent um and and so at this time I've married. Uh I got married. Congrats. Yeah. So I was married at this time. We'd got married in April, at the end of April. And so hadn't been married too long. Well, I'd been married a little over a year, got married in April of 06.
SPEAKER_03:Damn, creeping up on 20 years, brother.
SPEAKER_01:Got married in April of 06. Oh yeah. And then we had our first son, Ty, in February of 07. Oh yeah. And so by the time I get on to state police or heading to the academy, Ty's, you know, five, six months old. Got another one on the way, probably. Not at that time, not at that time. But uh got my first one. Um and heading up to Plainfield, but it's you know, you're up there Monday through Friday, you get off late Friday, you know, come home on the weekend, you're home Saturday, and then a lot of times you'd leave either Sunday night. And that was before 69 was built, too. So it was like a four-hour drive. That's 41 and 70. It sucked, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh we actually we spoke with was it Bishop about uh Plainfield. Didn't we speak with him on that in his interview? I believe we did, and he said he didn't go to the plain field office because they had built the southern one. Yep, yep. And then the southern one that he went to, he said, Oh yeah, we got to go home every night. Yeah, no, we were up here. So you were there like a full work week. What did your let's kind of focus on that for a second? What was so the academy like, you know, it's so you're there Monday to Friday, but what does your typical day look like? Or is it just sixteen hours nonstop all the time?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they're just yeah, they're long days. Yeah. Um it's funny, like when you first get there, it's I mean, it's a paramilitary organization, so I mean it's a lot like basic. I mean, you first get there and that's running and screaming and push-ups, and you're doing all that stuff, all that short stuff. Yeah, yeah. They get you as soon as you get off the bus. Oh, yeah. Well, you yeah, you know, it's not off the bus, you drive yourself there, but I mean you get there and yeah, they're just waiting. Did you get tasks there for the first time? Yeah, I got uh got OC sprayed there, um, all that good stuff. Well, at the time we didn't have tasers. So no kidding. We didn't get tased.
SPEAKER_03:Did you get bit by one of them pit bull puppies at that?
SPEAKER_01:Uh no, I got bit by uh our SWAT canine, but that's later on in the story.
SPEAKER_03:Uh or I'm sorry, they use German Shepherd puppies. That's right. Ours was a Belgian Malin Bowl. Mals are even worse than the Shepherd sometimes. He got me. Oh no, that's wild. So so like 10 plus hour-long days. Yeah, and it would just depend.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh, you know, the first little bit you had traffic law, criminal law, yeah, um, you know, DTs, firearms.
SPEAKER_03:And it's very scholastic, right? Like there's actual coursework, like you have to go to these classrooms, sit down, yeah, go through like an actual lecture.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. It's like I said, criminal law and traffic law was a big part of it. Um and I mean that's uh it's a lot of IC codes, so Indiana codes for your traffic and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03:You know, and then what was the hardest part through this whole duration of I assume they probably break it up in phases like in the military, red, white, and blue phase or like whatever. Yeah, yeah. Do they have phases like that in the six-month time frame?
SPEAKER_01:So it's very similar, you know, like when you first get there, you know, the the staff, you know, the the troopers that are at the academy, the cadre, yeah, you know, they're running everything. And then as you get farther along, you start getting squad leaders and platoon leaders and squad sergeants and you know, all that stuff. And and so because you all get broken in different areas. So like one group may be at firearms the next, you know, however many weeks, while the other group's doing defensive tactics, and then the other group is doing evoc um or whatever, so it would kind of all rotate around and you know crash reconstruction and all that stuff. So you graduate from ISP before they call you? So so we're so it's like the middle, it's probably like October time frame. And so Monday through Friday, I'm you know, at the Academy all week. October, you're about five months in to the about halfway through. Okay. And so on one of the weekends, I have our weekend drill. So I work Monday through Friday at the Academy, get off, and then Saturday, Sunday is our one week in a month. Well, they tell us that we are getting uh the whole brigade of was it the 63rd Brigade or whatever for Indiana is getting called up and we're going, we gotta start doing pre-mobe stuff. You tell them to piss on it? Pretty much. I was well, I was like, I was like, hey, like I got a job, bro. Like I'm it's like, and you can't just like if I leave, it's it's not like I get a job. You would have to apply and go through all this. And I was I pretty much told him that you you're gonna have to come arrest me. I'll be up at the I'll be up in Plainfield. I'm not gonna be hard to find, but that's where I'm gonna be.
SPEAKER_03:I'm 80% through the academy. You're not fucking yanking me.
SPEAKER_01:And and it ended up being a pretty big fight. Really? Yeah, like you had to go to battalion and well it yeah, and uh God rest his soul, he just passed away not too long ago. Frank Smith was his name, he was a trooper that lived in Poseyville, and uh uh and anyway, he he's the guy that pinned my badge on me, but he went up and was talking to Senator, he got himself kind of in some hot water for sticking his neck out for me, but he he pulled some strings or helped help helped me uh so that I could finish. So long and short of it, so I do end up graduating. But so while everybody else is kind of getting excited towards the end of graduation, I was the opposite because as soon as I was done, I got a deployment.
SPEAKER_03:You just skipped out on all the pre-MOB. Yep. The deployment was like December, January or something.
SPEAKER_01:So as soon as you graduate, you're out the So we graduate like the beginning of December. Yeah. Um, I'm home for 10 days, and then I'm meeting uh 163rd at uh up in Indianapolis for a big ceremony, and it's it's it's on.
SPEAKER_02:So when you fly out, we always like to kind of ask the people that deploy like do you fly into Germany or where they fly you into?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so well, so we originally then we went to Fort Stewart, is that in Georgia? Fort Stewart, Georgia. Oh, okay. And did anyway, we went to Fort Stewart and did like a bunch of training there. Um and then we ended up flying from there. We flew up to Maine, and then from Maine, we went to um Shannon, Ireland to get gas. Nice. And then from Shannon, Ireland to Kuwait. When you flew into Kuwait, did they do that? What type of landing is that?
SPEAKER_03:Combat landing. Not there, not Kuwait, whatever country you were headed to, they probably did one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so then from Kuwait, we went up to Mosul is where we were at. And yeah, flying into Mosul, yeah. You think you're dead before you ever.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, that's what we always I always love to hear like the because they don't tell you about the combat.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's just you just thought you got shot out of the sky, like you're falling.
SPEAKER_03:The engine's cut off, and you're just like you probably cuts back the other way. You got dudes sleeping, waking up, yeah. Arms like floating in the air, you're like, I don't know what's going on right now. That's ain't good. Uh so for the folks at home reference uh Justin Brieslar's podcast, we do an in-depth dive on the uh the official layout of what a combat landing looks like. But so you did get to experience that. It's quite a quite an adrenaline rush. Yep. So you're heading into Mosul. Yes. What the fuck is that? That's a big city.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it it was. Um had one of the biggest airports and runways. So we did um the group that I was with, we ended up doing convoy security. Yeah. Um and so is this like route clearance? Uh no, no. So we would essentially we would escort, I mean, we would escort between 125 and like 200 semis. Um and we'd run it from Missoul to um oh Q West was the when you say escort, are you like in Humvees and you're yeah, we're in Humvees and all the fronts or back or and then you're ex escorting all kinds of just supplies and stuff all over now. We did MVPs and stuff, yeah. And now a lot of the stuff we did was all local national drivers, so it was a chaos.
SPEAKER_03:Um funny, or rather, let me ask, was it funny that like you signed up to be this fist or forward observer, you're kind of gathering coordinates and data and knowledge? And then shooting down the tube and running and gunning these boys down from a very long distance away. To that having been your job to, hey man, we're gonna strap you in a Humvee. Good chance you get blown up by an IED or shot at within a hundred meters. Yeah. Good luck. Was that just not like a total head tilt where you were like, what the fuck are we?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And uh and so so again, I had I'd just spent six months training, and so I was squared away, I guess, as I would say. I mean, you could probably imagine some of the guys that are that are in this group. I don't want to say turds. No, but and not all of them are. I mean, there's a lot of good dudes, yeah, but a lot of them are young kids that have no life experience whatsoever. Right, you got five, six years on these guys, right?
SPEAKER_03:And they're not applying for ISP. They're not applying for ISP. Maybe they're not even comfortable with firearms necessarily, you know what I mean? Like in their hands.
SPEAKER_01:So, so I guess unfortunately or fortunately for me, so I get stuck up in gun truck one. Uh, and so we are looking for IDs. We have the that Sparks system ever in the room. The roller the roller. Yeah. So we had that on our Humvee. I mean, that was our job was to find IDs. Who's the guy that we talked with that what did something similar?
SPEAKER_03:He rode in one of those. So later on down the road in the MRAP era, yeah. I don't know if you were in still when they were doing the MRAP.
SPEAKER_01:So we got uh our Humvee, we hit an ID one night and got it totally blown up, and then we ended up getting an MRAP.
SPEAKER_03:So much nicer. When the M and when the MRAP almost entirely replaced the uh the Humve, they came out with a bunch of supplemental, supplemental vehicles that came along the same MRAP family that I believe were also international. And one of them was a uh it was a single driver, single person vehicle, and it looked like a uh it looked like a fucking cockpit, like a miniature skinny, long MRAP, and it was a V-shaped hole, and it had the big mine rollers on the front, and this dude's only job was to drive in the front, and he was there was no gunner, there's no nothing, and it was just this guy in his truck, and his whole purpose was find the to get blown up, and they blew up all the time. But they the and they also had the candle box in the front, too, if I'm not mistaken. So they had the candle box for thermal, and we had those, and they had the mine rollers, so like they were constantly getting fucked up. And the great thing about these vehicles was they were the way they were made to blow up, they were easily replaced, like the parts were easily replaceable, they were like very modular, so like the front end would blow out, and they could have that vehicle turned around on that road in half an hour or or like up to an hour, and then it's a reference the guy that we had on.
SPEAKER_02:I'm blanket on his name. I can't remember what they're called on his name, but like he was like the guy that would just map out, like he was like the the shotgun, the yeah, the the guy that when like the sprint car races would be like the guy doing the hand signal.
SPEAKER_01:So we usually I mean it was kind of we call it the truck, the TC, the truck commander. I mean, so you typically had your driver, truck commander, and gunner is what we had. Now we all I mean we would rotate in because just we found that if you did the same job, you know, you get complacency. So if I was up, you know, in the gunner, there was times I'd be like, man, that didn't look I don't remember seeing that from over there. Like that's odd.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and it might be something that he saw the night before, but it was something like doing routes and you're not looking at the same map four times in a yeah, four times in one day. So you're like, oh, we haven't gone this way in a while, so let's try this.
SPEAKER_02:I just didn't know if any of your previous training, like for you know, like you're talking about like commands forward and stuff like that, were like, did it help you map out these uh locations? Like did it help you pick up any things like this guy that we had on before, he said he like a whole playbook, like everything mapped out. Hey, this is here. I didn't know like if it like even though you weren't doing what you were trained for, if it translated somehow.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah, I mean TC, yeah, yeah specifically. Uh you know, obviously like the forward observer stuff. I mean, map reading and and being able to kind of know distances, like visually known distances. Yeah. Um, I mean, all that stuff helps. What about first time going out of the wire?
SPEAKER_02:I feel like a lot of people remember their like oh yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you never forget. Yeah. No, it is what was your first uh what was that? Even you don't have to like go into detail or anything, but what was it like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we did uh we would run up, we we ran up to the north up to a place it was called Harbor Gate, or that's what we called it, I guess. Um and it was right on the border of Turkey. Okay. Uh so we ran supplies up up that way. And uh yeah, you when you start doing that left seat, right seat stuff, you know. I mean just you're there and they've been doing it for a while, and so every little thing, like you're freaked out. Uh you know, I mean, well, you know how it is in Iraq. So you're looking for IEDs. Okay. Yeah. So you're looking for IEDs. Well, every everything looks like an IED over there.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, they don't have And anything can be an ID.
SPEAKER_01:And anything can be, but they don't have, you know, an allied waste that comes every Thursday to pick up trash. Like there's just there's trash all over the streets. Yeah, there's dead animals all over the place. There's just if your car breaks down, it's just that's where your car breaks down at the time. Yeah, you don't have a car anymore. You're homeless. It's hard to wrap your head around it coming from over here. So I mean, you're just it's it's overload. Yeah, it's everything, you're just like, everything is gonna kill you. And and it until you just get in there and start figuring it out, and there's only there's only one way, and that's just go.
SPEAKER_03:Well you know, even then when you do, sorry not to cut you off no, but just to the add to his point, like even when you do do it outside of the left seat, right seat, and then they leave and you're now on your own, even once you get into it, like you'll find that like three or four months in, like, at least with me, like you still never you like a little bit of complacency creeps in where you're like, okay, yeah, that I know it's weird, but that is normal. Even though that's there, there's just so much goofy shit over there that you'll ne you'll you'll there's gonna be something you have never seen before ever there, and it could be four months into your tour, and those kind of occurrences happen all the time. Like, oh, there's a lady hanging out of her window. That's uh fucking first. That's unusual. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just weird shit.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I remember so it I so when we're doing all these, it's the same route. I mean, it doesn't, it's it's not like you would think that you'd pick these. Yeah, you know, you don't pick another route. Like this is the road we drive every night. Yeah. And so along the way, there's yeah, right. Well, I mean, we're not hiding. There's a 200 something vehicle, all lights on. All lights on, yeah, it's all at night, but we got these airplane landing lights all over the place because you're looking for you know, wire like this in the you know, in the sand and gravel roads. Yeah, because that's easy. Um but uh but you know, you got these checkpoints that a lot of times uh you know the um Iraqi military guys are at. Of course they are coming out and you're handing water, you're being nice.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, I can remember the first time coming through and you stop and like they're just they're back in their little I mean it's not a very it's about the size of a phone booth, you know, just a little checkpoint, and they are not coming out. And we're just like, all right, boys, get get ready, something's coming. Yeah, and sure as shit, we'd go down and you'd find an ID right down the road.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like they it's almost like they were planning it. Well, you mentioned like one of your trucks getting hit. What was that experience like for you?
SPEAKER_01:So we were coming back from it was the truck you were in, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So he said he was in the front.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we were we were coming coming back and um and yeah, it was uh kind of a section that was we we called it jokingly Fluffy Bunny Way. You know, they have all the different MSR whatever. It like all the IDs we ever found. I mean, we that was the hot spot.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so give it a cute name.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, give it a cute name, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fluffy name. Yeah, so we're coming back, and and yeah, it ended up being um I think they say it's about 60 pounds of homemade explosives, and they'd use crush wire. Um as soon as you crush it, maybe so as soon as that yeah, as soon as that mine roller went over it, made the connection kaboom. Um and yeah, it took that sparks. I mean that sparks thing weighs a couple, two, three thousand pounds. I mean, it just blew it to plum off. Oh yeah, and shoved us up. I mean, you could feel the but you were yourself, yeah. We all three of us were fine. Did the truck go up or was it just uh Oh yeah, it went up. I uh we were probably all knocked out, you know.
SPEAKER_02:So what happens like when like a the front truck gets hit? What do you guys do? Like do you just get in the next truck in line or yeah?
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, you know they come up on the sides, and and you all you have to be wary because you know, like in all the training that you were going through leading up into that, you know, a lot of times they'd hit that vehicle just to stop it, and really the main thing is for the next group that comes to swarm and get to come and get you out, then they're popping off others to kill guys, and so so like you really have to watch you know what you're doing and and pay attention to the other.
SPEAKER_03:What's a fun thing, what would be a fun exercise for Tom? Like, so and I was gonna make this point, and I'm glad you asked the question that you did. Um, so like if you were uh the Taliban, or if you were ISIS, or if you were some bad guy and you're watching this five-mile-long convoy go through, right? On a road where you have strategically placed, you know they're coming through, you knew yesterday, and you've strategically placed your bombs along that route you know they're gonna take. You start thinking about it less about stop thinking about it like, oh, we're blowing up the first truck because that'll stop everybody, because it gets way more complex than that, as I'm sure you're aware. Because they'll try to segment you, right?
SPEAKER_02:Sometimes you want to separate the pack.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, sometimes they'll hit the middle truck, like if it's a uh trigger, they'll trigger the middle truck, and then when they start to make their whatever, you know, defensive posture, defensive maneuvering, then they hit that lead truck. Then they hit a you know near they near the rear truck. Now you've got everybody.
SPEAKER_02:You're causing chaos, you're separating. It's the same thing as like warfare from all the times. You're gonna pull back a little bit, and then you got a trap set.
SPEAKER_03:But it's not to your that was gonna be the point I wanted to make was it's not always a lead truck that gets first. It's uh it's very random, and they do it however they're set for that reason.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we've talked to a few people too where they have like makeshift crosshairs out of stones in the distance to like line up to wait and to hit it for the EFPs.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I was getting to say, so that was so when I got there in 07, kind of late 07 and 08, um, that was there was that big group that had pushed all the stuff like up out of Baghdad, and so a lot of the bad stuff was coming up north into Missoul, and that's what you started seeing was the EFPs, and I mean those those frightened me.
SPEAKER_03:Walk me through what an EFP is because I don't know that we've talked in great detail what that is on this podcast.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's I think it stands for explosively formed projectile, but they weld like a copper piece on the front of this you know, whatever until the cab and the copper gets melted, but then it's when that explosion bounces around the cab. It's like a when that explosion goes off, it it melts that and forms it almost. I was we were always taught like a almost like a javelin looking thing. Yeah. And I mean it comes through, you know, that up armor like a hot knife through butter. And as soon as that comes in, it just pulls all that hot gas, and it's it's not a pretty bounce either.
SPEAKER_03:It goes straight through.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, but yeah, it's it's the it's that hot gas and stuff that comes in. I mean, it's it's a showstopper for those guys.
SPEAKER_02:So how how long were you in Afghanistan for this first?
SPEAKER_01:Uh for Iraq, it we were there. Yeah, I mean, for the that full year of 2009.
SPEAKER_03:You did 12 months? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Just how often were these convoys from one end to the other? Was it like, hey, we got it here, let's load up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so we did. I mean, they were essentially every other night you'd run up and then stay the night, because you'd run all night and then sleep during the day. Damn, so you're doing this about 180 times. And then you'd run back the next night, and then you'd pick up whatever and then back up. That's insane. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's insane. Did you ever have like a you remember a point in your deployment where like you got to camp fucking whatever or JSS, whatever, and you actually got like three or four days of just like oh somebody's loading the trucks, I can just sit and breathe for a minute. Did you ever get like an extended stay at a camp? No, no. It was always just boom, boom.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we had there was one night we found going to that route, we found two or three IEDs. So I mean, you call route clearance, they come, and that's I mean, it's a whole process. It takes forever. EOD's got to come out, blow it up, charge it. They leave, we go a little bit farther, find another one, they turn around, come back, blow it up, you know, and then we go up a little ways, find another one. Well, like by this time, it's three or four in the morning, five in the morning. Like it's we're not gonna yeah, we're not making it to where we're going. So we end up turning around going to Q West was the name of the base in Iraq. Uh and end up going there and staying and then finishing that route the next night. Yeah, so that's the closest thing to a multi-day break that you got.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The multi-day break I got was after we got hit with the ID, they let us like stay off for two or three days. So no shit.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, that's a nice little breather. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Sick, dude. So, what what's it like coming home from that first tour? You got that a general in itch? Are you like going straight to ISP? Are you going to the next branch? What's that like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh, you know, get back. They have uh I it's pretty cool coming back. So uh, you know, I was with state police, had a good buddy that was in the National Guard, he just wasn't on that deployment that was on the state police. So bunch of troopers came up and uh escorted all of us back down from uh from Indianapolis. Of course, when we got to Evansville, I mean, Lloyd Express the way it was lined, all the overpasses, you know, just people everywhere. This community is pretty awesome when it comes to that. So just a huge you know, show of support for all of us that were coming back, and you know, yeah, getting getting back and seeing the wife and the kids and stuff was awesome.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, there's I tell people all the time that you'll never have a happier moment in your life. You know what I mean, especially coming from somewhere kinetic, like seeing horrible shit very frequently overseas, and then when you come home, you'll never be more thankful than in that in that moment ever for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_01:And it was it's really weird for me because like I mean, we we didn't, I didn't we didn't lose any guys, you know, we didn't really see any, you know loss of life, at least my group didn't, um, you know. Most of the stuff that happened, if it was bad, it was because we did something stupid, you know. Right. Um, so in that aspect, it was we were very lucky and really didn't come back with much. Like I saw worse stuff once I got back and I'm doing the state trooper job.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, no kidding.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. Well, let's roll into it.
SPEAKER_02:So you come back and you don't really have that like cool down period. You're rate to that, like the thing I always like to mention too is like I feel like there is this like an overlap between military and police work, but the the military dudes, at least when you come home, like that's on the other side of the world. But in being in police, like when you clock out, you still know that like hey, there's crime happening four blocks away from my house. There is stuff going on. So, like, was that like uh what's that like for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh you know, get back and I had to do like a little refresher uh because I had you know I spent six months and I was gone a total year. I mean it's a brain dump trying to learn all the information for going over there. So probably change. Oh yeah, and getting updates on all that. So um so I get back, kind of do that, and then I start my FTO year, uh, my probationary year. So I was actually like a year behind the guys I graduated with on on some of the years. Did you have to do that thing like Bishop mentioned where it's like you ride along with one guy for a few months?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's that FTO.
SPEAKER_01:Well, our our probationary time period is a year long. So yeah, you didn't ride with guys for a year, but but yeah, I can't remember how many months it was. But yeah, I had a primary FTO and then like a secondary and a third or fourth. So yeah, you would ride with three or four different people.
SPEAKER_02:Like we had Mike Kennedy in, who you probably know, and he was talking about like one of his first runs, you know, was somebody had stolen a purse and they were like chasing after him, and that's when he got his, you know, like like that was like his fuel to like he's like, Yeah, this is for me. Like, what do you have like a story like that?
SPEAKER_01:Oh man the one that pissed me off the worst, so uh I was doing uh uh riding with one of the guys um and uh so I had to drive like my personal vehicle to meet him at the post. Yeah, uh, you know, because we don't have take home cars yet because we're still in that probation time frame. Yeah, still a newbies. So, you know, I drive to the post to meet him, and we go and we do our shift and stuff, and he's like, eh, you know, it's been so night, we'll drop you off, you know, go study these things and whatever. So drops me off back at my vehicle. I still have even though I don't have my own take home car mean, I've got my radio, so I'm still listening on my way home to the track. It's not five minutes after he drops me off. He gets in a vehicle pursuit, foot pursuit, all kinds. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. You missed out on a son of a bitch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and then you just go home and you're studying. I was maddering hell. Fucking parallel parking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that was bullshit. Right. So that's one thing I remember on my field training. So God, that's insane.
SPEAKER_02:So you get that first year done, you get your own vehicle. Get your own vehicle. Yeah, what's that? Commission. That first call by yourself. I mean, you probably had the first call by yourself in that year of probation, right?
SPEAKER_01:But no, no, no, I mean, not until you get your own car. You're with your field training officer, and then once you get, you know, get your get your commission, um, then yeah, you're you're kind of on your own. So what's that first call?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what's that like? Oh, you just what's it like? Was it just something silly?
SPEAKER_01:Like, yeah, I don't even remember what the first one was, to be honest with you. You just can't wait. Oh, you just can't wait to go stop a car or whatever it is. Booming at the jail, just ready to run.
SPEAKER_02:Go ready to run a marine, dude. Exactly. Oh, yeah, brother. That's so sick. So, how how uh how long were you in ISP?
SPEAKER_01:So I was in for 12 years. Um and what was your segment?
SPEAKER_03:Or because Indiana's broken up into like 12 segments that ISP patrol.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I worked, I I was out of well, out of graduating, I went, I was supposed to go to Jasper District, which which was District 34. Further north of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but uh, I put in a transfer while I was overseas to District 35, which is Evansville. And so Evansville was Pike County, Gibson County, uh, Knox County, Warwick County, Posey County, Gibson County. So District 35 covered those counties.
SPEAKER_03:Um and you did that for so where you so that's where I started, yep. Oh, that's where you started. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:So I worked Vanderburgh County is the one I worked on.
SPEAKER_03:How many years?
SPEAKER_02:Five or six probably. I got a funny question here. So when they run your plates, what all pulls up? Is that able to be discussed or yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So like, yeah, when I run your plate, I mean it just tells you who the vehicle's registered to. Um, you know, but if it's if it says you and you've been stopped for speeding or whatever, it's gonna be previous instructions.
SPEAKER_02:What about charges that have been like like uh expunged?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that still no not on your driving, not on your driver record. What about conceal carry? This is an excellent. Question. We're just gonna rattle these up. Yeah, man. Does it tell you, like, oh, this guy's CC? I'm gonna walk up to the truck or the car and be like, hey, where's the weapon?
SPEAKER_01:Or no, I don't remember it showing that. I don't because it's on your license. Yeah, I don't think it's on your license.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't know what it does now, but it it didn't then.
SPEAKER_03:It didn't.
SPEAKER_02:Now's now's kind of wild because they have conspiracy theories, which we were jokingly talking about before. But they got those they got those cameras now on the side of the roads with solar panels, and they were talking about how like now, like say I drive from Illinois to Warwick County, it's gonna pick up like, hey, you know, this camera caught him here, this camera caught him here, here, here, here. I know the lat he's been. I didn't know if that's actually like accurate or not. Yeah, I don't know, but I wouldn't put anything past yeah. They're using ISPs now, using helicopters to patrol the area.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's sick. Did you hear about that? We used to have they got those little uh they're not uh we just talked about it with Alex, and I can't remember what kind of helicopters they are. I don't know. Here nor there. So five, six years in ISP.
SPEAKER_01:So, well, so I did 12 years with ISP, but I spent my first probably five or six years working Vanderburgh County, and I work third shift, so I work midnight. Uh, you know, Jason D wise. Uh that I mean, realistically, that's I mean, that's where all the fun stuff happens. I mean, that's where you want to go.
SPEAKER_03:So you're having no issue hitting quota, right?
SPEAKER_01:No, there's no such thing as quota.
SPEAKER_03:There's not wink? Oh, he didn't wink. Whoa, come on. Don't don't bullshit me. Is there a quota, brother? Talk to me. No, talk to me. Does Metro have a quota? Metro?
SPEAKER_02:Dude, I think it's funny. Uh what's funny is like uh the Chandler Police Department, they release like their stats every year. They're like 3,000 people pulled over, 1,000 speeding tickets issued, 500 seatbelt tickets, one cop car stolen. No, did they not issue that?
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, no, working midnights, Vanderburgh County was awesome. Uh because really well, EP, yeah, EPD and and County really take the calls, right? So I was kind of free to just go do how do checkpoints work?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, is that a thing? I that's a Tom is on fucking fire today. Uh you are so much more locked in than I am. That's a good point. Uh, because it's frequent that you'll hear like, hey, my dad used to tell me in high school, be careful going home.
SPEAKER_02:I heard there's checkpoints on XYZ road.
SPEAKER_03:So even then still, like Evansville Watch, the the well-renowned Evansville Watch on Twitter and whatever, Instagram refuses to come on the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:They did.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm I'm we're talking them into it. Don't worry, we're gonna get them. Uh but like they'll say, Hey, look out, uh, you know, traffic, stop, watch, uh, EPD, EVPD on North Green River. And like, I've been driving through those areas when I've seen that post, and I'm like, there's no fucking stop. Is that a thing? Are they doing stops? I mean, what we used to do, I've never fucking been through one.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, we used to do a checkpoint either. I always was told that they have to set one up and there's got to be a turnoff within the site.
SPEAKER_01:So we wouldn't be we would yeah, so we would set them up. Um, I mean, we'd we didn't do a lot of them. You'd do them, I don't know, two, three times a year. Um but yeah, you'd set up a DUI checkpoint. And and to your point, so you know, I can't remember all the language, but you know, a lot of people were like, hey, it's unconstitutional, you're stopping me without any justifiable cause and all that stuff. So but I guess how you're like cause enough. Yeah, but anyway, so yeah, you have to daddy's day. You would have to, you know, I think we had to I never set it up, it was always the guys higher than me. I always worked them, but um, but anyway, I think they would have to announce, like you said, this is the location of it. You had to make sure that there was, you know, multiple places you had to uh you know put up signage prior to, and they you know, people could turn and avoid it if they wanted to.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And just because they turned and avoid it, you can't just that doesn't mean oh, go stop that car. Yeah. Uh but I mean a lot of people would just come through and uh very rarely did you find anything on it.
SPEAKER_03:Um they'd have to be completely blasted.
SPEAKER_01:And so they would drive into it. But yeah, I mean we did you'd get some, but you know, by and large. And then you would have guys that just kind of were in that area. Um and now, so as an example, let's say you're looking for somebody swerving after a turnoff or it could be anything. So when you're impaired, you do you know, the reason they do the tests that they do is when you're impaired, it it's hard to do multiple things at the same time, which is why you know the walk and turn, you have to do this foot and count out loud and look down, and it's gotta touch heel to toe, and you gotta take so many steps. So you give a list of multiple things that you have to do. Well, when you're intoxicated or impaired, I'm like, okay, I remember I gotta do this and I gotta do that and gotta do that, but then you might miss these other three things.
SPEAKER_02:What if I'm just a slow person?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he has all then you're you'll be fine because you haven't had anything to drink.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, but uh but yeah, we used to do those. Yeah. Uh so how long are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:I said 12 years he was in ISP.
SPEAKER_03:12 years, but you're you're SWAT at some point. Yeah. How long in your ISP career do you get in?
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I got it on in 2014 on SWAT. So I worked uh midnights in Vanderburgh then went to Posey for a little bit, and then I got big into uh uh training. We ended up going from we had Glocks at the time, Glock 17, yeah, uh Gen 3s, and then we went to the SIG Sour, the 227, which is a double stack 45. And I had just become a firearms instructor at that point in 2010 when we got those. Oh yeah. And um, so I ended up being on kind of our South firearms instructor team, and we traveled all over the state doing firearms. I mean, for months.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you had a leg up. So I started getting that's kind of how I really got into kind of the training and and all that stuff, and and becoming real interested in firearms and SWAT. What does that look like?
SPEAKER_03:Let's say somebody that works for ISP, I'm sure they probably already know, but maybe they don't. God bless you. Um somebody works for ISP and they're like, Man, you know, I've always I've always thought about SWAT, but I don't even know the first what does that transition even look like? Like, how do you go from being just like a trooper to okay, now I'm gonna go somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you know, it was always it was always hard to get on because there's only so many spots, and a lot of times when guys got on up they they stayed for a long time until they die or retire, right? And so uh unless a guy left and there was a spot open, yeah, you know, then you there you weren't getting on it. Um and so real like at the time I just um you know I would I was fortunate enough again doing the firearms instructor stuff. So when we would have an academy class up at uh Plainfield, I would go up and help and do a lot of the firearms stuff. So SWAT guys are always doing different sections of firearms uh up there, so that was always a good opportunity to meet some of them and kind of get to know them or rub out. You know, yeah, just say, hey, just hey, I'm interested. Because like everybody else, I mean, they're always they want to know who is the next guy that they can get.
SPEAKER_02:So when um I know SWAT guys go to that town that we mentioned in several episodes that's gatatuk. Yeah, yeah. Did you get to do that? Does the ISP go there? Is it only SWAT?
SPEAKER_01:So uh no, it's not only SWAT. So I mean that's where our what's it called, the quickening, I think is what it was. Like our three-day like when we graduate. That sounds like a ritual. So when we graduate when we graduate the uh to graduate the academy, like the last one of the last things we do is we go up to Muscatatuck and you run, I don't know, it's 48 hours, two, three days of just non-stop, huh? How's a civilian like do civilians get to go there? I mean, there's civilians that work there, and there's a lot of sometimes just to work role player stuff. But anyway, we would go up there and do, or that's where we did like our final big scenario. So, you know, when I was graduating the academy, we went up there and it was you had your radio on you all the time, and you'd get a call, and it's hey, there's a abandoned vehicle here, and you'd go check it. Or hey, there was a disturbance call at this address, and you'd drive all I mean, it's a town, you'd drive and you'd go to that address and go up to that house and knock if it was a noise complaint. Well fair. And they had all yeah, they had all kinds of scenarios that would play out, uh, from active shooter ones to I mean, you name it.
SPEAKER_02:So it was pretty it was pretty cool. What was different about ISP versus SWAT? Like I know like the SWAT guys, uh, they had to repel from the Ford Center. Um, did I I don't think the Ford Center was a thing in 2014 when you Yeah, we used to, I mean, we would repel off all kinds of stuff, you know.
SPEAKER_01:We did that uh Indiana State Police, they do that respect for law camp. And so we do a lot of demos for for kids and stuff. I mean, we'd we'd repel off buildings and all kinds of stuff. I'd repel off the ones up at Vincent's and USI. So I mean that was part of it. Um I mean, really the the biggest thing um, you know, when I got on SWAT, used to uh prior to then was uh it was part-time, so you'd still do your road trooper, you know, your daily stuff, but if there was something that happened, those SWAT guys would go do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I can't remember when they started, but they ended up going full time. Um and so that really upped upped our capabilities because when we were full time, I mean, I I didn't do road trooper stuff. I mean it was training and shooting and fighting and I remember talking to Mike Kennedy and I was like, dude, like your Evansville SWAT.
SPEAKER_02:How often does Evansville SWAT get called? You know what I mean? Because like I I being, you know, I just don't think they would get called daily, and he's like, no, sometimes it's you know I get called a lot, and and we would get called, so there was 13 of us.
SPEAKER_01:So our I was on the South SWAT team and we covered the southern 32 counties of Indiana.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and there's there's something happening in one of those thirties.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's so we were we were pretty busy.
SPEAKER_03:Because you're going to like barricades too. Like if there's a barricade, you're getting called. Yeah. Because you don't know what you're dealing with, or at least the troopers.
SPEAKER_01:And a and a lot of it would be, you know, these smaller agencies that didn't have those capabilities would call us.
SPEAKER_03:Battering rams and different tools.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we had you know, we had the Linko Bearcats and and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02:So um you got like a core, like a story that stands out from your time as well.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you got like a favorite SWAT story, dude.
SPEAKER_01:I'm trying to think if I tell them. Oh, he's restricted, dude.
SPEAKER_03:We're we're starting to get into that redacted shit.
SPEAKER_01:We gotta there's just so many fun SWAT guys are they're different breeds. They're a different breed, and I mean it was work hard, play hard. Oh yeah. I mean our South team was pretty known. I mean, we were we were pretty tough on people.
SPEAKER_03:Did you ever did you ever have to do an active shooter? Like a real life active shooter?
SPEAKER_01:We were up at, well, we were up at one of the race details. Um, I can't remember if it was Indy5 or the Brickyard 400, and uh there was a school, uh it was a junior high that had an active shooter at it. Just happened to be when we were up there, and a bunch of us went running up there. Uh it was over by the time we got there, but had to clear that whole school. Maybe Noblesville Junior High or something like that. Um we had to do that. Now, I mean when I was on, I was on I think.
SPEAKER_03:Uh all right, hey, sorry about that. We're back, folks. Um, but yeah, so we were talking about active shooters. You had kind of had to help clear that entire uh school, we think, up in Noblesville, but not for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Um I always want to ask, uh it seems like every cop has a naked man story.
SPEAKER_03:Ooh, yeah, you ever get a good like uh bishop's got fingers and he had that naked guy on like PCB.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we had uh um I'm trying to remember what it was for. I mean it was uh so we would do a lot of uh you know high risk warrant services and and this guy was on it and yeah, he by the time he came out he was naked. Why I don't know why. Well like he because it took him I mean it probably took him five, ten minutes before he came out. Like it's why didn't why I don't know why you wouldn't have thought to put clothes on it.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, I relate to the naked man because I feel like one uh the primary defense I feel like is like nobody wants to fuck with the naked guy. You know what I'm saying? So you think you have a leg up in the fight, but lo and behold, it's the there's some special weapons.
SPEAKER_01:Responsibility it's the it's a I don't want to say the reverse, but you're more into it. You're well, no, you're not more into it, but like you're gonna end it a lot faster. Or you can you're gonna that dog is gonna hurt a lot more it's gonna end a lot faster because no one wants to mess with the naked. We got a Malamois back here that loves it. No, we did have a Malamois. So what's after SWAT for you? Uh so really, I mean, I do SWAT until I uh you have while you're in SWAT. Oh while I'm on SWAT, man, they're all over the place. I have five. I have five. So yeah, I had the first one right before I go to basic. Yeah. Uh I find out that she's pregnant with the second one, like yeah, the day before like the day we get hit with the IED is like when I find out she's knocked up with text her the next day, hey, concussion, or do we uh do are we really? Um and then you know, sometime after I get back from overseas, we have the third. Yeah, and then we have a hiatus, and then actually we don't have uh the next one until I'm at SIG.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so let's get there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So Yeah, so on SWAT all the way up until uh I leave there in 2019.
SPEAKER_03:Now you get to retire at this point, right? Uh or your client.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm vested. So what does that mean? So I still have like I'll get when I turn, I think it's 50, I'll get I'll start drawing a pension from the state police, but it's only for the time that I was there. So you didn't get a full you're not getting the full 20-year retirement or whatever? Correct.
SPEAKER_03:And your military time doesn't add to that and help out? You could buy it.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm I don't think I did though. They make it pretty expensive, but like you could buy your military time, or like if you were at another law enforcement agency, you could you could buy some technical.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry to derail for a minute, but I want to rewind. Like, we've mentioned with Bishop, we've mentioned with Paul, we've mentioned with several guys in this like lane, but like the wife, you know, the wife serves almost just as much as the the person in order. So like what you know, what was like how were you consoling her through like, you know, like bishops talked, like, you know, hey, there's an active shooter, your husband's on site, you know. Like, what was that relationship like? How did you guys get?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I mean, I remember, you know, when I was overseas, I would just always tell her, you know, no news is good news. Like, I mean, we're gonna be out and about. I I don't know when I'm gonna be able to call sometimes. You know, I mean, we at least had Skype and some of that stuff that you could use. Yeah, uh, hey babe, join this Call of Duty lobby and I'll talk to you. Yeah. But uh pop on Halo for a second, dude. Let's get in here. Yeah. Um, you know, so yeah, just always told her that no news is good news. Um, and then you know, when I was when I got back, you know, starting on midnights, I mean, she really was a single mom, even though I was there. I was sleeping during the day and working at night. And, you know, I you know, without sounding like a shitty dad or husband, I mean, you know, I that wasn't my thought. It was like, man, I want to go get this bad guy, I want to chase this thing. Then you get on SWAT and it's the same thing. I mean, you just you're chasing that next it's a high. It's a high. Yeah, it's a high. And we got, you know, I got my first police action shooting. I was on for like a month and a half. And so, I mean we ended up, it was weird. I cause I got on and really, you know, most guys, even on SWAT, like that's still a very rare thing to get in an actual shooting. Like, it's just it's very rare. You know, most of the guys that were on the SWAT team, I think you had like a couple guys. Well, by the time I'd gotten off, I mean, we'd been in eight, ten of them. So, I mean, I was on the first one after a month and a half, and you have to take like a week or two off, and I come back, and the next detail, another guy gets in one, and I mean, we were just we were in them all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Were they always not were they always lethal, or were these shootings could they be like, quote, not could you discharge a non-lethal round and then that be considered?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, these were I mean, not all the guys uh ended up dying, but whatever.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean like the rounds, you know, it's a lot of law enforcement is like non-lethal first, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So like if if there's this guy pulled the the first one, the guy pulled a gun on us, and so he got lethal rounds.
SPEAKER_02:An interesting point is like uh like a civilian, I know like if somebody comes into my house and I shoot them in the leg instead of shooting to kill, that's like a different like when it goes to court, that's like a whole different thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you know, in law enforcement, you're just taught you shoot center mass. You don't shoot to kill, you don't shoot the I mean you just aim center mass because they teach you. Yeah. And the reality of it is, you know, uh I know you guys got into a little bit with with Bishop when you guys were talking about uh you know most cops are not gun guys, and most of them aren't aren't the best shooters. It's actually pretty scary.
SPEAKER_03:Question on to add on to his um in the civilian aspect, am I better off? I have someone breaking into my home, middle of the night, two in the morning, right? I get out of bed, grab my Glock, got a Glock 40 sitting by the bed, grab my 40 cal, get out of bed, find the noise, and I find the guy or girl or whoever that's in my home, whatever they're doing. Um maybe they have a weapon, maybe they don't. It's dark, I can't tell, but I have the right to discharge my firearm at that point. They've broken a window or they've broken a door because everything's locked. So they've forcibly entered my home. I'm able to discharge legally my weapon, right?
SPEAKER_01:In the house, yes. Because Indiana has a castle doctor.
SPEAKER_03:So now, follow-up question to that question. Like Tom said, am I better off tagging homeboy or homegirl in the leg or shoot to kill? No questions asked.
SPEAKER_01:And like I said, I mean, I wouldn't even say shoot to kill. I mean, you're just aiming at the biggest part, which is center mass. I mean, like, again, I've not seen you guys shoot, but I mean, it's hard. I'm pretty good. I mean, you know, you see the silhouette targets, yeah. And it's you know, a lot of people struggle to hit that.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And you're talking when it's not night and somebody didn't just break in your house, and you're I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on. So like trying to hit somebody's leg, and you're most people aren't even gonna hit.
SPEAKER_03:Well, the guys on the streets are uh they're calling me the doe slayer 5,000 now. Yeah. So it's kind of a big deal. I know. Uh, I'm here to stack five. It was 30. Oh god, come on, bro.
SPEAKER_02:My first dough was for 200 and something yards.
SPEAKER_03:Don't be like that. Don't we're sharing, not comparing, as Paul would say. Okay. Um, no, that is interesting though.
SPEAKER_02:So um So what leads you to uh get out of SWAT?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so I guess what really started leading me out was, you know, all around that time. I mean, you had your um the Michael Brown stuff in St. Louis and like just the the job, the job of being in law enforcement was getting pretty hard. Like I said, we had been in a bunch of police action shootings and just the times that it was. I mean, you it you really weren't as shit as it sounds as sad. I mean, you didn't know if your department was really gonna have your back. I mean, if it if you might be I might do something, yeah, I might do something that is within all my training and the scope.
SPEAKER_00:And if it looks and if it looks bad enough.
SPEAKER_01:Enough and I mean they were gonna they were gonna hammer you or what I mean you've seen it. Oh yeah and so guys are just like man they don't it's not worth it and um and then to your point shout out to Vietnam vets man yeah um and so anyway um I had uh that was the deciding factor though well that was part of it you know that was part of it um the other part I don't think I would have left the state police if it wasn't for that job um I ended up having again got a good buddy of mine um you know when he retired from the state police he got that he started at SIG Sauer and he was her law enforcement sales rep and he was a good friend of mine and uh I just used to always give him shit when I'd see him or talk to him like hey man like you know in ten years when I can retire like hang hang out there until I can come do that job right hook it up yeah anyway one day he pretty much reached out to me said hey uh one of the supervisors you know got left SIG and he's like I'm gonna put in for his job I don't know if I get it but if I do my job will be open so pretty much you know put up or shut up I'm tired of tired of hearing you open his own.
SPEAKER_03:So it was uh it was a law enforcement sales rep and it was for this region region four um and is at least how they named it and that covered Indiana Illinois Kentucky Ohio and Michigan damn so anyway he ended up getting to pick their gun like are some guys like no I'm just a Glock fan it depends what department most departments um you know yeah most departments they're they're uh yeah most departments like India State Police we went from the Glock and then we went to SIGs uh and so that's just the issued gun you get you know most departments are like that uh but some of them aren't uh you know some of them have an approved list of guns and you can pick off that list I mean Chicago PD was the one that it was like that so I think Chicago PD should be putting switches on their guns to compete with some of these street guys agreed also those guys are awesome shout out to the shout out to the range guys at Chicago PD yeah those guys got big balls shout out to the Dan Ryan Expressway which I will refuse to drive ever again um what was the name of that town what was the name of that town you don't I guess we don't have to say the department or you don't want to if you don't want to answer this question that's cool too we talked about it but it was the the group that a couple of the folks still had wheel guns yeah they still had revolvers as the I think it was at the I think it was at the time it was Chicago PD was it Chicago PD I think at the time I mean they still had like 70 something guys that still ran wheel guns yeah that's cool running revolvers dude they got cowboy hats too just a Stetson a speed loader and God on their side dude just hoping for the best some spurs on the 357 magnum man yeah dude that'll do some work yeah I hope you're hope you're good with your shot placement uh no so so you get to SIG um what's that what's that like slow down you know I mean like just immediately no adrenaline no total opposite yeah it was total opposite so yeah I mean it's you know so I go go up to the factory you know do my week up there which is you know I mean at the same time I I'm this little kid from Poseyville Indiana and I mean to me Sig Sour is like one of the largest gun manufacturers in the world I mean it was like to be there was just it was up until recently they had some flack recently how the juice is made you know what I mean yeah it was I mean it was it was really uh I mean I still can't believe it um I mean just such a cool experience I don't know how I lucked out um but but yeah I can remember being up there that first week and just walking through uh that facility and just state of the art um and it was just it was amazing and some great people that work there.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah I do that and it was pretty much you know here's your computer here's you know this is how you input your stuff in the Salesforce and and it's like there's your five states and good luck. I mean there's no and it was it was just running.
SPEAKER_03:No shit all over.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah department to department how what's that look like do you have like one of each gun in your vehicle and you're like here try this try this so at the time at the time I mean it was more than one of each vehicle um or more more than one of each um you know and so the good and bad about the SIG was I mean it you know it was pistols rifles suppressors optics ammo I mean it so I we were loaded up with stuff and um and then all the different variations of handguns and all the different variations of rifles. I mean it was chaos of optics yeah yeah it was and so yeah you'd run around uh you know a lot of times you know I would get emails from from a department or a phone call from a department or you'd meet them at a show uh and it's like hey we're in these but we're looking to get new guns you know we're gonna test them out can you come up and you'd start you know I'd just start setting stuff up in whatever state and try to get it as close to possible and running into that transition from like action to desk I mean it's yeah so I mean yeah steering wheel you know the hard the hardest was just you know going from really law enforcement into that sales role commercialized yeah and and not really knowing and there's no I mean everybody kind of has their system and so I take a lot of the stuff that you learned like from the FTO process you know you talking to the other sales guys like hey what are you doing or how do you do it and kind of getting pieces at work like ex-police officers most of them are ex-law enforcement yeah um which helped yeah because I figured there'd be a pain in the ass like a civilian trying to sell yeah we had one of the guys uh one of the guys he was just a gun guy he wasn't uh prior law enforcement and I think it would be harder because you know you go into those law enforcement uh agencies like they're already you know that's why one of the stories I was telling you yeah they don't trust you they're like salesman what do you know about oh fuck all right can you tell that so yeah so this is so funny he I'll you do go it's so so I it it is amazing so I mean I got to go over all over the place and see some pretty legit firearms facilities wasn't it there's it's more than one I mean it's it it's the similar situation that's happened at multiple locations I love this I love this yeah and so you know guys don't know me from anything um I'm just the Sig sales rep you know and I was going to uh a police department um I think it was in Ohio I think it was and there's a lot of their SWAT guys so I mean I'm I'm pretty particular on how I have all my stuff set up I mean I am testing my guns all my show guns or the test kit guns and stuff well me know that I'm doing oh yeah I'm cleaning them just tight hundred percent just tight percent yeah and and I can shoot pretty good um I've had a lot of rounds downrange and I can shoot pretty good and uh so yeah I get all my stuff squared away and go to this agency for this demo and you know it's a typical SWAT guy big old dude tight shirt comes up you know throws some rounds downrange and he's like your gun ain't zeroed I was like man really I was like you know shit can happen I was like I usually yeah maybe I dropped it yeah I will drop the case or something yeah it's like you know stuff happens I was like I I test them before I come I was like do you mind if I shoot and he's like no not a problem so I grab it and you know I mean I just burn it down yeah I shoot a hole about like ad in paper and just chuck that thing on the on the desk and I was like shoot fine to me and you can imagine you know it's a bunch of SWAT guys and I that dude had to leave he just left yeah he had to keep pulled he he was like I can't stay you told me that story I was going to oh that's true yeah he didn't like it and uh so yeah I I mean I would I would do that stuff all the time we're uh we are cat we're coming up near the end here I I kind of do you want to well let's transition to what what uh what's li what's life like after SIG so yeah well so I was there from twenty two and I left or I was there from nineteen till twenty two twenty three um and I actually left um um and still yeah yeah all other stuff uh is that the 365 uh yeah it is love it love it let's check it out here um you can't bring this on on camera I don't think no no YouTube doesn't like that yeah frown upon but yeah no I end up leaving there and was actually gonna be the head farms uh instructor for bishop over at Lawman uh and started that and it just it ended up not working out on my end not not anything on his end so uh I ended up having another another kid and damn this one different Seco and I I think uh I think you had a reverse vasectomy for this other kid right uh before the last two yeah yeah no way they untied it or yeah listen I had it easier yeah I got I got I got tied after the first three yeah and then untied and then we had the second two you were like I haven't spent enough money yet uh it's weird dude kids change your whole perspective dude don't do this not right now yeah no we're gonna do this I have a kid you have a kid five yeah yeah yeah yeah Brian did Brian has zero kids and I get grief for it from this guy all the time 35 no kids he won't leave me alone dude I think it would change Brian's life oh 100 I'm 35 yeah but like my wife is 33 it's incredible coming from another guy whose dad wasn't in his life I'm just saying we met my wife I mean my youngest is two and I'm 43 so good lord oh my goddamn you look good for 43 brother holy shit but I was gonna say like it changes your whole perspective like you sit there and you look at like hey my parents did this I want to be different and then you get the same age your parents were when they had you and you're like oh I kind of understand and Jesus Christ heard this argument from him a thousand times I think Brian should have kids I think they should shut up kids are the best it would be different if you had like an Afghani kid story that's like that's why I don't want kids but you don't have that well I actually have tons of Afghani children's stories if you want to know them they're disgusting.
SPEAKER_03:Keep a long segment of bleeps. So the uh not the kids the stories Jesus you get what I'm saying uh so that being said since we're talking about kids and you want to shove it in my face uh in the beginning for both of you question for both you in the beginning before you ever had children uh before you ever had B did the average kid just gross you the fuck out like there everything they did annoyed you and you were grossed out by them and it was just like a nuisance more than you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah no does that question seem brash when I say that or no I mean because I have that's how I feel so you're like a kid whisperer like for me so like the the kid thing like I always wanted kids but like I was like a baby whisper like people would have crying babies and they hand them to me and they're like I don't know how you got the kid to fall asleep you know and like like I would always be the guy at the kids' table playing with the kids and stuff which you do like you do great with kids.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah because I have autism we're on the same level that's the beauty of it you get to play with the same Lego set this we're building the same pirate ship bro and then as I as I get older you're like yeah that he needs a gun. He needs a new gun it's a new gun for dad too six years old let's get no joke but dude I uh I don't know I just I don't think it's in the cards for me bro it's all good I just like to peer pressure Brian from now on the kids are the best I think it would take him to the next level this guy I can't think so you see I've been working with for the last five years uh all right back to back to frickin' Corey Jesus um so so you were doing the lead instructor here it doesn't pan out you were like I need to spend more money let's have a kid so you do so uh you're spending a bunch of money where do you go what happens then so I end up um I end up going and working actually for a buddy doing some uh construction type stuff for a little bit and then um I end up having um everything's with relationships you know I have another buddy that uh uh he started the local facility here um and like I said they work on AC and DC electric motors they had a sales guy that ended up going back to an old job they they incentivized him to come back yeah there's like a common theme to your life you're you like started out like hardcore and then you just like slowly started to fade away from hardcore yeah do you see that and uh and anyway uh he reached out to me and he's like hey I need a sales guy and it's like man I don't know anything about motors he's like I don't need you to know anything about motors I need you to sales I need you to know how to talk to people and so I can do that and so I end up starting there uh and I've been there it'll be three years and that's crazy and it's been pretty cool I've learned a ton um you know well speed run before we get to the last question what what advice would you give to somebody that wants to go into the military?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah here we go advice for somebody that wants to go into the military well my son active duty my son he's uh he just went into the Navy he left in July oh yeah brother don't touch our boats don't touch our boats he's uh he's doing uh Navy corpsman um so what advice did you give him before he went man I told him so a couple things I told him um I told him if he was gonna go into the military to try to find a job that will relate to outside of the military cormin uh medic medic ops there you go and so he's trying to do uh uh navy sarc is that like is that it's like their spec ops stuff oh shit yeah dude let's go yeah so he would get attached to guys like Paul hell yeah dude doing some dark shit he would he would get he'd get attached to those raiders how it just waking people up in the middle of the night and then it's like so that's kind of the route he's trying to go that's the route he's trying to go so yeah brother what about you for his service that's not easy to give up a kid to something like that you know what I mean so super proud of him though man it's him brother what about advice for somebody that wants to go into law enforcement um spicy here we go man so that one's a little bit they're both hard I guess but that that one's kind of hard I don't know how it is now I can tell you from just the guys that I know that are in it and and kind of the all the different agencies and guys I met when I was at SIG I mean it's just it is a hard time to be into law enforcement I mean you ain't getting into it for the money and so my best advice for those that are going to do it is it always amazed me the number of people that were going to get into law enforcement that have never been punched in the face and can't shoot a gun. Like if you want to join law enforcement go get in some fights at your local boxing area or whatever. Like do some mixed martial arts get hit in the face uh learn to protect yourself and like Bishop said spend the money to spend the money courses get squared away you know there's no reason you should go to that with any with any doubt of not being able to pass your firearms exam or anything like that. I mean you know I just remember guys you know it wasn't like your entry stuff with 20 push-ups like the number of people that came and couldn't do 20 pushups it's like what'd you think we were doing yeah like I I don't understand and so if you're gonna do it be in shape get punched in the face and be able to shoot so what about my wife um that one too really the same. I mean it's just at a higher it's just at a higher level but you know man I was some of the some some of the guys I got to do training with when I was at SIG one of the guys was prior team six dude and I I got to spend a lot of time with him and shoot a lot of rounds and the number one thing that he that they did is just they did it all the time until you couldn't screw it up. And it wasn't there was no fancy hey this is the secret move that we learn when you get it tilt your shoulders it's the basic stuff just all the time really fast. 10,000 hours yeah it's just this it's over and over it's the repeatable looks like a high street they're not even they're doing it like you and I tie our shoes. You don't have to think about tying your shoes you can you don't even have to look at them you can just tie your shoes. Yeah it's that's how they are with the gun in their hand like they're not even thinking about it. They're thinking about these other things that they're looking for. So they can process and this that this is just automatic automatic. They know they have a jam before there's yeah and they're they feel it's they're counting targets as they're clearing and I'm nothing special but I mean I can I can be shooting a rifle and I I mean I I know when I'm out of rounds because it the recoil is different. Yeah I d I get the the push back and I don't get the return.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah because the bolt locks to the rear I mean I can feel it I don't even have to think yeah that's the wrap up yeah um and then on the on this journey um that you've been on probably more specifically through a large portion was law enforcement um was there ever like a really dark moment where you were like okay that's it I'm done you know I'm hanging it up I'm putting in my two weeks or resignation or whatever the official term is and in that dark moment more importantly what we care the most about is what was your motivation that like you woke up the next day or five minutes later you're like you know what no fuck it I'm gonna keep going through this you know what I mean man I don't know that I've ever had that just man I want to quit and give up thought um I mean I can remember being you know more specifically at SIG like I I can remember being in a hotel room um I hadn't been doing that job very long found out the wife was pregnant and it was like you know I was like God what have I you know did I screw up you know I I had 12 years on the state police I was you know I was on SWAT I was doing good I was you know heading in this direction and here I jump ship and I'm in some hotel room in some city I have no idea my wife's pregnant at home with three other kids she's running all over like what am I doing and uh I mean I can remember calling her on the phone and and she was like pretty much stop being a pussy and just keep yeah just keep at it this is what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01:And and I'm so glad I did because I you know the lessons I learned at SIG have have carried over into other things and not just not just job related I mean you know um you know I made good money at SIG and and that's not what it's all about but you know to for a kid to come and really not have any college be a cop and to to really be pretty successful at a big place with something. Yeah and so really that made that made a lot of my decisions Decisions and jumps easier. I mean, we haven't even gotten to conspiracy stuff, and and I know this is kind of offered with you and Tanner on conspiracy stuff.
SPEAKER_03:We're gonna have to. Yeah, I gotta have you come back in, dude.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you know, without getting on the Tanner would be good.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, Tanner was like, dude, we gotta talk about conspiracy. I was like, hold up, let's get an episode.
SPEAKER_03:Can we get you and Tanner to get just freak the fuck out for an hour and a half? Wait till we take these off.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, I mean that's I like because I was at SIG when COVID happened. And so I get you. I mean I learned I learned a lot. And and and honestly, we didn't get into get into a lot of it here though, but even you know, even just here pretty recently, just like the spiritual aspect of my life and finding some you know, see we can get you back in in like three to six months and we can go down this whole spiritual journey.
SPEAKER_02:I know Brian's on one himself.
SPEAKER_01:I'm I mean that's somewhere in there. That's kind of met both of you guys, right? Well, those wrecking rosaries and oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh and again, shout out to Paul for a Christian either. He's actually a Satanist. Uh not a Satanist. I'm just like to throw that out there on the record. Just for the record. Uh I do not love Lucifer. Um no man, I'm super pumped that you were able to come in. We are gonna have to get it's probably gonna be less than six months. I want to get you back in. Yeah, no, I'd love to. Yeah, there's we'll do a total, you and Tanner, it'll be fucking sick. Um, but yeah, dude, you could have done anything else on uh Sunday evening, you know what I mean? The Sabbath. I loved it. Uh so you came in, um, you drank some water, we drank some scotch.
SPEAKER_01:I should have drank scotch for the same.
SPEAKER_03:See, I got a lot of stuff to get into. Yeah, I gotta I gotta make you feel good. Dude, we'll get you in for uh part two. Uh but dude, I seriously I can't thank you enough. No, I can't thank you. Thank you. Your story is amazing. I I I love it. Um we'll get you in a couple months and we'll have another one, man. So, short of that, uh, this has been another filling episode of the Days Grimm. My name is Brian Michael Day. My name is Thomas Grimm. And this is Ben. This has been Corey. Thank you so much. Thank you guys, appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:Bye Conspiracy theory, dude. COVID, is that what you're really in?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, dude. So so this is no shit.
SPEAKER_04:But in my eye dog, and I can't see. I'm trying to be what I'm destined to be. And Bum's tryna take my life away. I put a hole in a tummy for medicin' with me. My back on the wall, now you gon' see. Better watch how you talk when you talk about me. Cause I'm gonna take your life away. Make me, many, many, many, many man. Now it's death upon me, Lord. I don't cry no more. Don't go to the sky no more. Have mercy on me. Oh, then get you refund, little dummy. I ain't dead. I'm the topist in the dirt that they've been found. I'm the under ground king and I ain't been crowd. When I bought something special weapon every time I'm the greatest stuffin' like I in his proud I walk the block with the bundles, I've been knocked on the humbles, wing the eyes, when I rubbles, show your cheeks. What my gun do gotta tip on the loose and go ahead, turn your back or make it live to lose your leg. I walk around, done on my waist Chip on my shoulders, the laptops, flip in your face, this bitch, dead, dead, dead, dead, be dead, and then it's a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.